1 <mclasen>	lets start anyway, I guess
   2 <mitch>	so be it
   3 <mclasen>	ok, cooking finished
   4 <mclasen>	the agenda is at http://live.gnome.org/GTK+/Meetings
   5 <mclasen>	looks like it is all me today...
   6 <mclasen>	so I'll just start with my first item...
   7 <mitch>	i have something for misc but was too lazy to add
   8 <mclasen>	sure
   9 <mclasen>	1) Adding a message area widget in 2.16 ? See #555344 
  10 <mclasen>	I basically just wanted to hear peoples opinion on this
  11 <mclasen>	it wasn't on the 2.16 feature list that we've discussed earlier
  12 <mitch>	do we have a netsplit, the channel is unusually empty and many usual suspects missingf
  13 <mclasen>	but it is a relatively widespread ui pattern
  14 <mitch>	-f
  15 <mitch>	how would that look? we have a dialog in gimp that collects messages instead of popping 5 dialogs. is that the same?
  16 <mclasen>	if you open a nonexisting file in gedit
  17 <mclasen>	you see it in action
  18 <mclasen>	the tooltip-colored area that pops up above the document
  19 <mitch>	ah that stuff
  20 <mitch>	it should derive from GtkBox of course ;)
  21 <mclasen>	this pattern seems to have originated in browsers
  22 <mclasen>	but it is widespread by now, in all document-based apps
  23 <mclasen>	evince, eog, gedit, etc...
  24 <mclasen>	they all copy code from gedit, afaics
  25 <mitch>	we even considered having it in the gimp image window for some messages
  26 <mclasen>	there is some more work to do before this is really ready to land
  27 <kris>	oooh
  28 <kris>	it is the thing that slides in from above?
  29 <mclasen>	I've put some of the remaining questions in the bug
  30 <mclasen>	its not really sliding in
  31 <mitch>	i hope it slides ;)
  32 <mitch>	:(
  33 <mclasen>	that would require animation support...
  34 <kris>	we can take care of the animations in a later version of gtk+
  35 <mitch>	the offscreen code can slide it in with 80% opacity
  36 <mclasen>	yeah, we can make it nicer
  37 <kris>	but at least I have an idea what the widget is about now
  38 <mclasen>	the api is pretty much a copy of gtkdialog
  39 <mclasen>	you can add buttons/action_widgets to an action area
  40 <mclasen>	and theres a content area where you can put arbitrary widgets
  41 <benzea>	maybe it shouldn't copy the tooltip style, but instead assume that themes will adapt?
  42 <mclasen>	thats one of the open questions I left in the bug...
  43 <benzea>	any label put into it may need to get the text color changed (gedit gets this wrong currently)
  44 <mclasen>	yeah, also, it doesn't work right with hicontrast-inverser
  45 <mclasen>	but thats more a bug of that engine
  46 <mclasen>	so, the general sentiment seems to be that this would be an ok addition in 2.16 ?
  47 <mitch>	i could ask our gimp ui master and report back
  48 <mitch>	about the general concept i mean
  49 <mclasen>	yeah
  50 <kris>	I think it would be nice to have
  51 <mclasen>	I'm not going to commit it tomorrow
  52 <mitch>	i agree
  53 <mclasen>	I'll work on the remaining issues in the bug
  54 <kris>	i am unsure about the api, but it seems it did have some real-world testing alreaddy
  55 <jdahlin>	Sounds like a reasonable addition to Gtk+
  56 <mclasen>	ok, next topic
  57 <mclasen>	Timeline for next stable releases
  58 <mclasen>	I wanted to let you know that I was planning on doing stable releases sometime next week
  59 <mclasen>	well ahead of gnome 2.24.1
  60 <mclasen>	just so you can commit your fixes faster :-)
  61 <mitch>	and there was silence
  62 <kris>	I am thinking about any pending fixes I have
  63 <kris>	I don't think I have anything urgent
  64 <mclasen>	ok, just holler if something is worth holding the release for
  65 <mclasen>	I expect to start distchecking ~ 1 week from now
  66 <mitch>	maybe we could poke carlos to fix that filechooser bug
  67 <mclasen>	good point
  68 <mclasen>	I'll poke
  69 <mitch>	kris and i will also poke
  70 <mitch>	that should hurt enough ;)
  71 <kris>	I went through curerntly open tooltip bugs last week
  72 <kris>	didn't find much urgent except for that one crasher bug
  73 <kris>	which seems to only happen when people are using certain language bindings for some reason
  74 <mitch>	heh there he is
  75 <mitch>	garnacho: <mitch> maybe we could poke carlos to fix that filechooser bug
  76 <garnacho>	which one?
  77 <mitch>	garnacho: about stable gtk release next week
  78 <mitch>	garnacho: the one that doesn't allow to navigate to remote uris
  79 <mitch>	mclasen: or did you mean another one?
  80 <mclasen>	the other one I know of is the initial-size-is-wrong one
  81 <mitch>	heh
  82 <mclasen>	but thats not carlos'
  83 <mitch>	oh other one
  84 <garnacho>	hm? I'll have a look at the remote uris one
  85  *	garnacho feeling a deja vu
  86 <mclasen>	but federico is in Boston this week, so I don't expect to see a fix for the size problem
  87 <mclasen>	next topic is also related to releases
  88 <mclasen>	GLib 2.20 for Gnome 2.26 ?
  89 <mclasen>	there was some demand for having a faster glib release again 
  90 <kris>	for which feature?
  91 <mclasen>	mostly for new gio stuff, to make nautilus and gvfs behave better
  92 <kris>	I see
  93 <mclasen>	a small thing is the added api in the appinfo stuff that I committed earlier
  94 <mclasen>	that lets nautilus handle deleting apps and reset mime associations 
  95 <mitch>	frequent releases never hurt
  96 <mclasen>	and another one that david and alex are currently working on is support for connected servers
  97 <mclasen>	that requires some api additions in gvolume/gmount
  98 <mitch>	what's that?
  99 <mclasen>	its one of the notable regressions in the gnome-vfs > gvfs move
 100 <mclasen>	the ability to define shortcuts to servers
 101 <mitch>	ah nice
 102 <mclasen>	and have them be presented on the desktop / places menu
 103 <mclasen>	we've kinda emulated that badly with bookmarks for 2.24
 104 <mclasen>	but it is not comparable to the old gnome-vfs feature
 105 <mclasen>	david really wants to have it back, since he used that feature :-)
 106 <mclasen>	anyway, I don't think there is much wrong with cutting a faster glib release, as long as everybody is aware of it
 107 <mclasen>	and I didn't hear and dissent...
 108 <mclasen>	my last topic for today (phew): "Special-purpose features" - what is the 3.0 plan for GtkCurve etc ?
 109 <mitch>	you can't since the trombone made you deaf
 110 <mclasen>	thats over by now (Thank god)
 111 <mitch>	:)
 112 <mitch>	the curve is particularly useless, does anyone use it?
 113 <mclasen>	the question about the special-purpose features occurred to me recently when looking over the docs
 114 <mitch>	GtkRuler on the other hand is marked as "will move out of gtk", but so many apps use it
 115 <mclasen>	no, 'special-purpose' is basically a polite way of saying 'useless', I think
 116 <mitch>	yes
 117 <mitch>	GtkGamma
 118 <mclasen>	its a bunch of gimp 0.x stuff, i think
 119 <mitch>	we should deprecate it
 120 <mclasen>	of course, the gimp has long since moved on
 121 <mitch>	probably
 122 Oct 07 16:28:32 *	Lethalman has quit (Remote closed the connection)
 123 <mclasen>	so, basically my question is if we need to make it clear that these things will be treated the same way as deprecated apis
 124 <mitch>	do you have some kind of list?
 125 <mitch>	why not deprecate them right away?
 126 <mclasen>	that might be the easiest way to do this
 127 <mitch>	or GTK_DISABLE_CRUFT
 128 <mclasen>	the list is basically this: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/SpecialObjects.html
 129 <mitch>	i vote for keeping the ruler though
 130 <mitch>	it's pretty common i think
 131 <mitch>	(note that gimp uses GimpRuler since 2.6 so i'm not speaking for myself)
 132 <mclasen>	someone probably needs to do some research to find out whats used
 133 <Sonderblade>	mitch: GtkHRuler and GtkVRuler should still be removed and replaced with a concrete orientable GtkRuler?
 134 <mitch>	Sonderblade: the orientable ruler is already there
 135 <mitch>	mclasen: and in this special case i would vote for really deprecating hruler and vruler
 136 <mitch>	not much impact here i think
 137 <mclasen>	ok, fair enough
 138 <Sonderblade>	oh i see
 139 <mclasen>	I guess I'll put the special-purpose widgets on the gtk3 task list on the wiki
 140 <mitch>	good idea
 141 <mclasen>	thats finishes the list of my topics
 142 <Sonderblade>	i think the "Note" section in those widgets are pretty clear that they will go, even if the word "deprecated" isn't used
 143 <mclasen>	mitch: you had a misc item ?
 144 Oct 07 16:33:15 *	m8t|laptop (~mike@88.172.125.130) has left #gtk-devel
 145 <mitch>	yes i have this bug i'm totally undecided on and want to make a tiny poll here :)
 146 <mitch>	one sec...
 147 <mitch>	http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=516425
 148 <mitch>	it's about allowing accelerators in ui-manager created popups
 149 <mitch>	there are two ways, one is specifying <popup accelerators="true"> in the XML
 150 <mitch>	the other one is having a "popup-accelerators" boolean property on GtkAction
 151 <mitch>	opinions please
 152 <mclasen>	I think putting it in the xml is fine
 153 <mitch>	that approach is also 100% implemented and reviewed
 154 <mitch>	i will end up with the same set of opinions as before ;)
 155 <mclasen>	it is much more presentation-side than abstract-action-side
 156 <mitch>	move view than model, yea that's a good point
 157 <Sonderblade>	why not put it in GtkSettings?
 158 <mitch>	but it makes it unswitchable at runtime, no clue if we would want that
 159 <mitch>	Sonderblade: because it should be per-menu
 160 <Sonderblade>	mitch: why?
 161 <mitch>	Sonderblade: because $PLATFORM might have this main menu equalling the menubar, that should have the accels, but other popups shouldn't
 162 <mitch>	it's not a global policy decision that can be made for all popups
 163 <mitch>	i think i'll simply commit the xml based fix
 164 <mitch>	i'm done :)
 165  *	mclasen needs to go
 166 <mclasen>	see you guys later