1 15:05:51 <API> #startmeeting
   2 15:05:51 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Nov 17 15:05:51 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 15:05:51 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 15:06:03 <API> #topic Post Ubuntu Developer Summit Update
   5 15:06:08 <API> Pendulum, are you here?
   6 15:06:27 <Pendulum> yep
   7 15:07:48 <API> Pendulum, well, in that case this is your topic ;)
   8 15:07:54 <Pendulum> October 21 - November 4 was the Ubuntu Developer Summit to plan for the 12.04 release (Precise Pangolin)
   9 15:07:58 <clown> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings#Agenda_for_the_Next_Meeting_.2817_November.29
  10 15:08:21 <Pendulum> This is an LTS release for Ubuntu so instead of having major changes, the goal is really to polish things
  11 15:08:54 <Pendulum> At UDS this time around we had 4 accessibility related sessions: testing, community work/advocacy, development polish, and kubuntu a11y
  12 15:09:33 <Pendulum> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-accessibility-team-testing
  13 15:10:15 <MrChrisDruif> So, finally in.
  14 15:10:16 <Pendulum> That has the blueprint and notes from the testing session. We're going to try to up testing, make it clearer to non-a11y team members how to help with testing, and try to get in some clear usability testing as well
  15 15:10:50 <Pendulum> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-accessibility-polish
  16 15:11:07 <Pendulum> Those are the blueprint and notes from the development polish session
  17 15:11:33 <Pendulum> A lot of this was about bugfixing and getting the user experience as close as possible between Unity 2D & Unity 3D
  18 15:11:48 <Pendulum> We're also trying to figure out how to fix the lack of magnification issue
  19 15:12:20 <clown> ubuntu doesn't use gnome shell, right Pendulum?
  20 15:12:28 <API> Pendulum, do you know if there is someone working on that?
  21 15:12:36 <Company> clown: right
  22 15:12:37 <Pendulum> clown: right, it's Gnome 3 underneath and Unity for the shell
  23 15:12:43 <API> clown, they have unity3d and unity2d
  24 15:12:49 <API> unity3d is a compiz plugin
  25 15:12:52 <MrChrisDruif> clown; right, but it can be install from Ubuntu Software Center
  26 15:12:57 <API> unity2d is a qt thing
  27 15:12:59 <MrChrisDruif> or even apt-get if you want
  28 15:13:08 <Pendulum> I'm trying to get confirmation from the Unity team of whether they can make the fixes necessary for 3D to allow the use of eZoom, but in the meantime Luke is planning on creating a profile that will bring in eZoom to Unity 2D
  29 15:13:14 <API> for any reason eZoom (other compiz plugin) doesn't work fine with Unity3D
  30 15:13:38 <Pendulum> because the issue in 3D is that there was an intentional choice in developing 3D to not let other compiz plug-ins effect the Unity dash, launcher, and panel
  31 15:14:13 <Pendulum> but 2D doesn't use Compiz for its elements so that blog isn't in there and eZoom should work fine in a 2D environment
  32 15:15:03 <API> hmm, curious
  33 15:15:12 <Pendulum> *block
  34 15:15:22 <API> ok, Pendulum anything else here?
  35 15:16:06 <Pendulum> Not really for that. I'd like to quickly overview the community a11y session, but that's quick
  36 15:16:20 <Pendulum> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-accessibility-team-community-goals
  37 15:16:45 <API> ok, thanks Pendulum
  38 15:16:49 <API> people, questions, doubts?
  39 15:16:54 <Pendulum> has the notes, etc. from the one about communite. We talked a little more about testing, researching more into use cases for people with learning/developmental disabilities, and doing more advocacy
  40 15:17:10 <Pendulum> I'm done now other than questions :-)
  41 15:18:25 <jjmarin11> I think is always great to teach people about a11y questions like how to test if their app is accessible. It can helps a lot people
  42 15:18:26 <Pendulum> (The links have far more information that I was going to try to put in here)
  43 15:20:22 <API> Pendulum, yes I guess that questions would arise when people start to read the information at those links
  44 15:20:43 <Pendulum> Oh, the other quick note is that I started talking to people at UDS about an advocacy project I'm trying to start which I'm currently calling Accessibility from the Start, which I'm hoping will ultimately be something that encourages and provides support for people to incorperate accessibility in their design and development from the beginning, rather than as something added on when they think of it later
  45 15:20:49 <API> but in general, did you have a good feeling at the UDS?
  46 15:21:05 <API> did you see UDS as something positive?
  47 15:21:38 <Pendulum> I think we made some good steps. I think we pulled in some important people to support getting things done
  48 15:21:56 <AlanBell> there is some extra emphasis as it is an LTS release
  49 15:21:58 <Pendulum> I'm hesitant to be unequivically positive about things until I see that support really in action
  50 15:22:12 <API> Pendulum, yes true
  51 15:22:43 <Pendulum> But we've got the release manager, technical architect, OEM manager, and several other people pushing to make sure a11y is done right this cycle
  52 15:22:43 <API> so, can i move to next item?
  53 15:22:47 <Pendulum> yes
  54 15:22:48 <API> s/item/topic
  55 15:23:10 <API> Pendulum, good for the former, ok for the latter
  56 15:23:13 <API> so lets move
  57 15:23:15 <MrChrisDruif> Where's the agenda? (I dropped in later)
  58 15:23:28 <AlanBell> MrChrisDruif: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
  59 15:23:39 <API> exactly
  60 15:23:45 <clown> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings#Agenda_for_the_Next_Meeting_.2817_November.29
  61 15:23:58 <API> #topic Hackfest Update
  62 15:24:04 <API> #info Nothing new
  63 15:24:23 <API> #info just say that API started to ping people in order to know the best week to organize the event
  64 15:24:45 <API> #info at this moment the best options are w02, w03 and w04 (2012 of course)
  65 15:25:06 <API> done with that
  66 15:25:22 <API> you are free to put your availability here ;)
  67 15:25:41 <API> fregl, Company mgorse
  68 15:25:58 <MrChrisDruif> Is Hackfest a lot local/US thing or can other countries also participate?
  69 15:25:59 <API> if you don't know right now, you just can answer that mail later
  70 15:26:00 <mgorse> Sorry for not answering the email yet. Any of those dates are okay with me. We should decide soon so that people can start getting visas and such.
  71 15:26:07 <Company> i'll answer the mail later
  72 15:26:20 <Company> i think every week is fine with me but want to check with gf first
  73 15:26:21 <API> MrChrisDruif, in fact it is planned to be organized in Coruña (Spain)
  74 15:26:26 <MrChrisDruif> (I don't even know what the Hackfest is exactly, but it sounds interesting)
  75 15:26:32 <API> but initially the idea is being a really focused hackfest
  76 15:26:41 <API> it is not a general a11y purpose hackfest
  77 15:26:47 <API> it is a atk/at-spi hackfest
  78 15:26:52 <clown> focus is good...
  79 15:26:54 <API> a follow-up of the prevoius one
  80 15:27:03 <joanie> clown, so is caret tracking :P
  81 15:27:14 <API> MrChrisDruif, fyi https://live.gnome.org/Hackfests/ATK2011/
  82 15:27:16 <clown> joanie:  oh, well done.  LOL
  83 15:27:26 <MrChrisDruif> Thanks API =)
  84 15:27:37 <Company> joanie: can i drop the focus code from gtk then and you do caret tracking instead? ;)
  85 15:27:54 <joanie> Company, absolutely! :P
  86 15:27:54 <API> ok, so as Im done, more questions and doubts?
  87 15:28:14 <MrChrisDruif> I'll have a read later
  88 15:28:20 * API reminds that the other thing to review is all that text stuff, boundaries and all that funny thing
  89 15:28:32 <API> ok, so as Im done, more questions and doubts?
  90 15:28:51 * Company is waiting for the "misc" section of this meeting btw
  91 15:29:50 <MrChrisDruif> Almost there Company
  92 15:29:52 * API misc section is our favorite section, definitively it requires a theme song
  93 15:30:02 <API> ok, so as people are silent,
  94 15:30:06 <API> lets move to next topic
  95 15:30:17 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
  96 15:30:20 <API> jjmarin11, ?
  97 15:30:40 <jjmarin11> ok
  98 15:30:47 <jjmarin11> #info I haven't any result about the FoG to bring in the meeting.
  99 15:31:18 <jjmarin11> #info I'm in convesation with Karen Sandler about the ammount of money to raise, her approval of our FoG goal , FoG accounts, web progress bar, etc
 100 15:31:45 <jjmarin11> I hope to get news from her pretty soon
 101 15:32:07 <jjmarin11> no more news, questions ?
 102 15:32:51 <API> no from my side, but good work
 103 15:33:36 <jjmarin11> ok :-) , so I think we can go next
 104 15:34:17 <API> ok, well, today we were really fast, but I suspect that we will have a long misc time
 105 15:34:37 <API> so
 106 15:34:44 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
 107 15:34:50 <AlanBell> o/
 108 15:34:50 <API> for the new people
 109 15:35:02 <MrChrisDruif> o/
 110 15:35:04 <Company> #info GTK just got a big overhaul of treeview accesssibilty support. Please test, it's considered to be backported to 3.2
 111 15:35:05 <API> we use this time to talk about things not included on the agenda
 112 15:35:26 <API> but ideally people should add things to agenda if they plan to talk about long things ;)
 113 15:35:50 <API> Company, a little question about that,
 114 15:35:53 <Company> i'm done unless there are questions :)
 115 15:35:55 <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, understandable =)
 116 15:36:00 <API> with this new overhaul
 117 15:36:20 <API> is treeviewaccessible accessing to private stuff of treeview?
 118 15:36:30 <Company> yes
 119 15:36:38 <API> ok, good
 120 15:36:53 <API> with this overhaul treeviewaccessible became smaller?
 121 15:36:59 <Company> i added an internal interface between treeview and accessible
 122 15:37:20 <Company> not a lot yet, there's more things missing
 123 15:38:00 <Company> but it would get smaller if i did those, too
 124 15:38:13 <mgorse> Company: Does that mean there are more a11y commits coming? Are they also going to be backported to 3.2? Or just what you've committed so far?
 125 15:38:14 <Company> but i have no idea yet how to...
 126 15:39:03 <Company> mgorse: that's all unclear as (a) I don't know what i'll do yet and how intrusive it's gonna be and (b) the usefulness of those changes
 127 15:39:21 <Company> mgorse: i'm not really keen on backporting unless it fixes really important issues
 128 15:42:39 <API> ok, I guess that this silent means that Company doesn't have anything to add
 129 15:42:48 <API> and that people doesn't have anything to ask about this
 130 15:43:04 <API> so, any other want to add something here
 131 15:43:07 <API> at misc time?
 132 15:43:09 <AlanBell> me
 133 15:43:15 <API> go on please
 134 15:43:45 <AlanBell> once upon a time there was planet-a11y.net which was an aggregator of feeds on accessibility
 135 15:44:24 <API> aha, yes, we talked briefly about that some meetings ago
 136 15:44:55 <AlanBell> that kind of broke and got taken down, I spoke to the maintainer (Bryen Yunashko) back in May and after an initial enthusiastic response my followup emails offering help didn't seem to result in much happening
 137 15:45:01 <API> what we said on that meeting was basically that as the planet would require a overhead was not a priority, and just that poeple should post more
 138 15:45:08 <API> but if you have the energy to start it...
 139 15:45:10 <AlanBell> so this weekend I messed about with planetvenus and got something up and running
 140 15:45:22 <AlanBell> http://planeta11y.org/ is up and running
 141 15:45:30 <API> AlanBell, but did you get the domain from Bryen?
 142 15:45:35 <API> I thought that was managed by him
 143 15:45:48 <AlanBell> I registered a new domain, felt it was better as a .org anyway
 144 15:46:07 <AlanBell> I will follow up with bryen and see if he still has the .net domain and wants to point it at that
 145 15:46:25 <AlanBell> totally fine with bringing him in as an admin of the site, or anyone else who wants to collaborate on it
 146 15:46:36 <AlanBell> I just wanted the thing to exist
 147 15:47:00 <AlanBell> so, at this time I am looking for feedback on the design, and in particular the accessibility of the site
 148 15:47:05 <AlanBell> plus feeds to add
 149 15:47:27 <AlanBell> I don't want to restrict it to being a free software only thing, any accessibility focussed feeds are good
 150 15:48:11 * API notices that there is also a little change on the name planet-a11y => planeta11y, but that doesn't seems too relevant
 151 15:48:40 <AlanBell> there were problems in the past due to feeds breaking the accessibility of the site, I think I can fix any problems like that with the xslt filters should that arise again
 152 15:49:12 <AlanBell> yeah, I felt planeta11y was better than the hyphenated name, and it was available, so I invested $6.99 to get it :)
 153 15:49:52 <API> AlanBell, what is the way to being added to the planet? a direct mail to you?
 154 15:50:00 <AlanBell> yes, mail to me
 155 15:51:09 <API> ok
 156 15:51:45 <jjmarin11> I think this planet can be very useful to be informed about the a11y efforts. I'd prefer a only free software thing, because gnome is promoting the free software values.
 157 15:53:26 <API> AlanBell, ok, thanks for the information
 158 15:53:31 <API> anything else?
 159 15:54:03 <clown> AlanBell:  re:  accessibility:  you could use an a11y checker like this one:  http://achecker.ca.  That would be helpful.
 160 15:54:03 <AlanBell> jjmarin11: an interesting point, would be interested in further feedback on that
 161 15:54:23 <AlanBell> clown: I did try a few already, thanks for that link
 162 15:54:32 <jjmarin11> But for me is good if the non free software is not the main topic, as I think it is (for example, a free software that runs in Windows)
 163 15:54:33 <clown> AlanBell:  wlcm
 164 15:56:39 <API> well, it seems that AlanBell has finished
 165 15:56:44 <API> we still have some minutes
 166 15:56:57 <AlanBell> yes, I am done, happy for further discussion after the meeting though
 167 15:57:00 <API> someone want the lsat shot?
 168 15:57:08 <API> someone want the last shot?
 169 15:57:37 * clown bang!
 170 15:58:00 <jjmarin11> arghhh, don't shot in the meeting room
 171 15:58:44 <clown> jjmarin11:  you have nothing to worry about.  you are a zombie.
 172 15:59:15 <API> ok, taking into account that the dawn of the dead has started
 173 15:59:16 <jjmarin11> oh, yes, I forgot that part :-)
 174 15:59:20 <API> it is a good time to close the meeting
 175 15:59:22 <MrChrisDruif> According to movies/games, he should worry for bullets in the head apparently
 176 15:59:23 <API> #endmeeting