1 14:37:14 <API> #startmeeting
   2 14:37:14 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Nov 10 14:37:14 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 14:37:14 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 14:37:20 <clown> yeah, I was tripped up by the DST change over — remembered at the last minute.
   5 14:37:29 <API> #topic GNOME 3.4 Approved Features
   6 14:38:05 <API> #info on last release-team meeting we talked about features proposals
   7 14:38:31 <API> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2011-November/msg00007.html
   8 14:38:39 <API> #info in relation with a11y proposals
   9 14:39:00 <API> #info GNOME-Shell mag stuff were approved
  10 14:39:18 <API> #info Dots was also approved, although it was suggested to talk with design folks to review it
  11 14:39:24 <joanie> :)
  12 14:39:30 <fer__> :)
  13 14:39:31 <clown> :-)
  14 14:39:37 <jjmarin> :-)
  15 14:39:42 <API> #info Dasher was not accepted as a new feature, but accepted to be included on GNOME modulesets
  16 14:39:59 <API> #info mclasen opinion is that this feature shouldn't be solved with an app
  17 14:40:34 <API> #info imho, this is related with the integration. To be accepted as a feature dasher funcionality should be integrated as caribou was
  18 14:40:45 <API> #info eViacam was not
  19 14:41:02 <API> #info although this is not a surprise. Now we know more about the steps to integrate it
  20 14:41:13 <API> #action API needs to report all the people
  21 14:41:24 <joanie> (report all the people?)
  22 14:41:26 <API> #action clown needs to update https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree/Features
  23 14:41:34 <API> #action joanie needs to update https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree/Features
  24 14:41:43 <API> I mean that I need to notify patrick and cesar about that
  25 14:41:48 <joanie> aha
  26 14:41:50 <joanie> thanks
  27 14:41:51 <clown> right, I started, but I have a couple of questions.
  28 14:41:53 <API> as I just notified clown and joanie
  29 14:41:58 <API> a mon please ;)
  30 14:42:01 <clown> sure
  31 14:42:13 <API> #info not related with features, but mclasen did a good questions
  32 14:42:50 <API> #info he asked if a11y people reviewed GNOME Shell OSK to check about extra a11y features required
  33 14:43:08 <clown> "OSK"?
  34 14:43:34 <API> #info AFAIK, Caribou already have some of them, so first step would be check if GNOME Shell "on screen keyboard" could have them
  35 14:43:39 <API> OSK = on screen keyboard
  36 14:43:51 <API> #action API will send a mail to eitan
  37 14:43:54 <API> done
  38 14:43:57 <API> questions, thoughts?
  39 14:44:01 * clown of course, d'oh
  40 14:44:26 <clown> API, about the features wiki page:  2 questions.
  41 14:45:05 <clown> First, is the text in the emails that we sent sufficient for the "report"
  42 14:45:06 <clown> ?
  43 14:46:04 <clown> wiki-fied, of course.
  44 14:46:06 <API> I think so
  45 14:46:17 <API> most of the features have a similar amount of text
  46 14:46:21 <API> just update it if there
  47 14:46:27 <API> are something new
  48 14:46:39 <clown> okay, that leads to my second question.
  49 14:47:31 <clown> the feature description page is "flat", and there already is a "High Contrast …" link. But I don't think that it has anything to do with the magnifier's high contrast effects.
  50 14:47:52 <clown> Should I "nest" that mag feature within?  Or should it have its own top-level link?
  51 14:48:22 <clown> Similarly for the zoom options dialog — there is a  "System Dialogs" link there already.  sub-topic, or standalone?
  52 14:48:26 <API> well, that feature was added by cosimo, and it is about themes
  53 14:48:33 <clown> right.
  54 14:48:39 <API> and btw, was added after feature proposal deadline
  55 14:48:55 <API> but no, I think that are different things
  56 14:49:00 <API> just add a new item on that page
  57 14:49:21 <API> IMHO, if you add as many points as mails we sent it will be fine
  58 14:49:31 <API> after all, here:
  59 14:49:32 <clown> so, I should add the mag features right at the top (unless there is something that is there specifically for a mag feature, already).
  60 14:49:33 <API> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2011-November/msg00007.html
  61 14:49:37 <API> there are three topics
  62 14:49:53 <API> at the top?
  63 14:50:06 <API> if you mean directly on features page, yes
  64 14:50:32 <clown> Okay, I have a better idea of what to do, then. Thanks.
  65 14:50:54 <API> clown, more questions ?
  66 14:51:37 <clown> no, API, I'm done.
  67 14:51:46 <API> people, questions?
  68 14:52:23 <clown> #action Joseph will add info to 3.4 features page about three magnifier related features.
  69 14:53:25 <API> ok, I suppose that no, no questions about features
  70 14:53:32 <API> #topic Hackfest Update
  71 14:53:44 <API> well in this aspect, there is a missing action from last week
  72 14:53:54 <API> as I needed to send a mail to check availability
  73 14:54:05 <API> but for the ones that missed last meeting
  74 14:54:27 <API> #action plan is having gtk, webkit and a11y hackfests as independent events
  75 14:54:34 <API> ups, that should be a #info
  76 14:54:58 <API> #info current estimated a11y hackfest date: w03 or w04
  77 14:55:08 <API> #action API still needs to ping interested people
  78 14:55:12 <API> Company, btw
  79 14:55:21 <API> the other day on IRC you mentioned that it would be a good idea
  80 14:55:31 <API> to ask some DBUS folk
  81 14:55:36 <API> to come to the a11y meeting
  82 14:55:40 <API> I was thinking about that
  83 14:55:44 <API> what about Colin Walters
  84 14:55:57 <API> AFAIK, he is involved with DBUS
  85 14:56:09 <API> and helped mgorse with at-spi2 sometimes
  86 14:56:12 <Company> i think desrt wanted to attend
  87 14:56:20 <Company> (Ryan Lortie)
  88 14:56:38 <API> yes, he also mentioned that
  89 14:56:48 <Company> he would satisfy the dbus requirement
  90 14:57:22 <API> ok
  91 14:57:51 <API> so people, questions or doubts in this topic?
  92 14:58:36 <mgorse> I think it would be good to create a wiki page to compile a list of problems that we want to solve / discrepancies between the way toolkits work and the way atk works, that make it hard/complicate/dslow to do things. Does anyone have a suggestion as to where to put it? Or does such a page exist already?
  93 14:59:11 <API> mgorse, well, we had that page from last hackfest
  94 14:59:17 <API> but it is true that it would be good to summarize it
  95 14:59:30 <joanie> Sounds like we're talking about a new page
  96 14:59:30 <API> in fact it is a good idea, in order to have an agenda
  97 14:59:50 <mgorse> There were things that Company observed for instance that we didn't discuss last time
  98 15:00:03 <joanie> and perhaps one which should not be hidden under 'hackfests' but given a more prominent hackfest-independent place
  99 15:00:06 <API> mgorse, yes true
 100 15:00:29 <API> joanie, hmm, don't know
 101 15:00:37 <API> as I said it would be good to start to work on the agenda
 102 15:00:45 <API> if we also create a hackfest-independent place
 103 15:00:52 <API> we would have duplicate information
 104 15:00:55 <joanie> no
 105 15:01:07 <joanie> we can link to, use wiki includes, whatever
 106 15:01:36 <API> ok
 107 15:01:40 <mgorse> I think that compiling a list of issues that we might want to solve is slightly different from creating an agenda, anyhow
 108 15:01:49 <joanie> +1
 109 15:01:59 <API> anyway, I think that going so much to the details are somewhat offtopic of the meeting
 110 15:02:06 <API> so lets just generalize to
 111 15:02:35 <API> #action compile a list of issues that we might want to solve
 112 15:02:47 <API> #info that list can be a source for the hackfest agenda
 113 15:02:50 <API> is this ok?
 114 15:03:02 <mgorse> yeah, I'll work on starting that
 115 15:03:03 <joanie> #action Joanie will create a place on live.gnome.org/Accessibility in which to compile these items.
 116 15:03:08 <joanie> oops
 117 15:03:16 <mgorse> oh ok; either way is fine
 118 15:03:26 <joanie> mgorse, I'll make the page and leave it blank <grins>
 119 15:03:31 <joanie> you can compile ;)
 120 15:03:57 <API> ok, so more questions or moving on?
 121 15:05:58 <API> no answer, so lets move
 122 15:06:04 <joanie> 1 sec
 123 15:06:08 <API> ok
 124 15:06:21 <joanie> #info the page is here: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ATK/Issues
 125 15:06:24 <joanie> (done)
 126 15:06:29 <mgorse> Thanks
 127 15:06:39 <joanie> thanks for the great idea!
 128 15:08:01 <API> ok, so moving now
 129 15:08:09 <API> #topic Team Quarterly Reports (Q3)
 130 15:08:14 <API> well, deadline is tomorrow
 131 15:08:28 <joanie> #action Joanie will draft our summary later today
 132 15:08:29 <API> joanie, ?
 133 15:08:40 <joanie> #info Most people seem to have added their parts. (Thanks!)
 134 15:08:53 <clown> wlcm
 135 15:08:55 <joanie> #info Those that have not shall be pinged mercilessly by Joanie
 136 15:09:16 <joanie> pinging myself should be interesting
 137 15:09:24 <joanie> (done)
 138 15:10:14 <API> ok, so anything else inthis topic? quesitons, doubtS?
 139 15:10:21 <jjmarin> :-)
 140 15:10:44 <jjmarin> nop
 141 15:11:38 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
 142 15:11:40 <API> jjmarin, ?
 143 15:11:48 <jjmarin> Not too much this week
 144 15:11:55 <jjmarin> #Info Waiting reply from Karen about the amount of money to be raised by the campaign and next steps to follow
 145 15:12:03 <jjmarin> #Info Also I wanted to get her feedback about our FoG goal before sending to the marketing list
 146 15:12:12 <jjmarin> She's been busy in the UDS this week, so I want to approach her ASAP (mercilessly)
 147 15:12:27 <jjmarin> So my action this week is to be done the action of the week before
 148 15:12:37 <jjmarin> #Info And finally, we still need to update our Roadmap as mentioned by our FoG
 149 15:12:44 <jjmarin> questions ?
 150 15:13:04 <jjmarin> doubts ?
 151 15:13:16 <jjmarin> clown ?
 152 15:13:20 <jjmarin> :-)
 153 15:13:36 <clown> jjmarin, sorry was distracted — catching up.
 154 15:13:52 <jjmarin> :-)
 155 15:14:06 <clown> jjmarin:  do I need to do anything here?
 156 15:14:15 <clown> do you need anything from me, I mean?
 157 15:15:38 <jjmarin> next topic ?
 158 15:15:38 <clown> well, if you do, you know here to find me.
 159 15:16:11 <API> jjmarin, ok
 160 15:16:20 <API> #topic Meeting time and Daylight Saving time
 161 15:16:29 <jjmarin> me again !
 162 15:16:39 <API> well, in summary, it seems that current meeting time is problematic for some people
 163 15:16:41 <API> like jjmarin
 164 15:16:42 <clown> jjmarin is a chatty kathy
 165 15:16:52 <clown> and a singing zombie
 166 15:16:52 <jjmarin> :-)
 167 15:16:52 <API> but it is also true that it is also better for other people
 168 15:16:55 <API> like Company
 169 15:17:08 <jjmarin> ok
 170 15:17:10 <API> is this true ?
 171 15:17:12 <API> jjmarin, Company ?
 172 15:17:20 <jjmarin> for me is worse
 173 15:17:38 <jjmarin> I have to leave work before on my time to get here :-)
 174 15:17:56 <Company> the RH desktop team meets at 11am eastern
 175 15:18:02 <Company> on thursdays
 176 15:18:40 <Company> which is - depending on DST - half an hour or 1.5 hours after the current meeting time
 177 15:18:49 <jjmarin> When is 11am eastern compared to this meeting ?
 178 15:19:05 <joanie> right now it is 10:19 Eastern
 179 15:19:17 <joanie> before meetings went from 10:30 - 11:30 Eastern
 180 15:19:20 <clown> this meeting is 1.5 hours earlier.
 181 15:19:56 * clown notes that north america is now on standard time
 182 15:20:20 <API> jjmarin, as the issue here is about your work, I guess that moving the meeting earlier is not a solution for you, right?
 183 15:20:34 <jjmarin> nop
 184 15:20:46 <jjmarin> For me is better later
 185 15:20:59 <jjmarin> 30 minutes is enough
 186 15:21:16 <jjmarin> but I don't know if this good for Company ?
 187 15:21:27 <mgorse> Sounds like a good compromise
 188 15:22:08 <jjmarin> We can add topics Company topics at the begining and the marketing at the end
 189 15:22:25 <Company> s/Company/RH desktop team/
 190 15:22:36 <jjmarin> :-)
 191 15:23:38 <joanie> conclusions?
 192 15:24:23 <jjmarin> The only problem I see is that miscelaneous time is usually about technical issues
 193 15:24:48 <jjmarin> that Company maybe want to participate but too late for him
 194 15:24:58 <clown> start with miscellaneous time (how chaotic!).
 195 15:25:05 <jjmarin> :-)
 196 15:25:05 <joanie> miscellaneous time is about miscellaneous (not on the agenda)
 197 15:25:29 <clown> then, start with technical issues but on the agenda.
 198 15:25:33 <jjmarin> For me 30 minutes is good +1
 199 15:25:38 <jjmarin> :-)
 200 15:25:48 <clown> so, 15:00 UTC?
 201 15:25:58 <joanie> For me I don't care; I just want a decision. ;)
 202 15:26:31 <API> I agree with joanie
 203 15:26:43 <jjmarin> Company, do you mind ?
 204 15:27:24 <Company> should work for most things
 205 15:27:38 <Company> 1h is a lot to argue ;)
 206 15:27:50 <jjmarin> :-)
 207 15:28:28 <joanie> hearing no objections....
 208 15:28:47 <API> jjmarin, you said that +30 minutes is good
 209 15:28:52 <API> but also agenda reorganization, right?
 210 15:28:54 <jjmarin> yes
 211 15:28:59 <joanie> #info Those present at today's team meeting agreed to give 15:00 UTC a try as the new meeting time.
 212 15:29:18 <joanie> #info In addition we will try more actively to have the agenda jive with team member's schedules.
 213 15:29:33 <joanie> #action Joanie will update the team calendar, wiki, etc. to reflect the new time.
 214 15:29:48 <joanie> right?
 215 15:29:52 <clown> might be a good idea to notify the a11y list about this decision, and do it before the next meeting reminder.
 216 15:29:57 <jjmarin> Ok, let's try it :-)
 217 15:30:13 <joanie> #action Joanie will announce the decision on the a11y team mailing list soon.
 218 15:30:37 * clown after she finishes the quarterly report.
 219 15:30:40 <clown> :-)
 220 15:30:54 <joanie> yeah, yeah
 221 15:31:04 <clown> just helping you ping yourself...
 222 15:31:13 <joanie> speaking of which
 223 15:31:23 <joanie> aleiva_, you write up stuff w.r.t. eZoom?
 224 15:31:27 <joanie> Q3s are due tomorrow
 225 15:32:38 <aleiva_> joanie: negative
 226 15:32:58 <aleiva_> do tou need it for Q3?
 227 15:33:05 <aleiva_> s/tou/you
 228 15:33:07 <API> aleiva_, deadline tomorrow?
 229 15:33:13 <API> and btw, we are out of time
 230 15:33:13 <API> so
 231 15:33:15 <joanie> Sure would like it
 232 15:33:17 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 233 15:33:18 <aleiva_> ok
 234 15:33:22 <API> someone else to add?
 235 15:33:44 <API> s/someone/something
 236 15:33:49 <API> something==something quick
 237 15:34:45 <clown> a quick thing...
 238 15:34:59 <clown> my co-worker (Colin Clark) got back yesterday from his travels.  He was at the cloud-for-all launch in madrid.  he said various gnome-a11y people were there and send me greetings.
 239 15:35:06 <clown> "Hi" back to y'all.
 240 15:35:08 <clown> (done)
 241 15:35:34 <fer__> clod for all?
 242 15:35:37 <fer__> I missed that one
 243 15:36:07 <clown> not sure who was there — Colin didn't give me any names.  Just that they said "hi".
 244 15:36:29 * clown likes fer__'s take on the name clod instead of cloud...
 245 15:36:41 <joanie> +1
 246 15:36:51 <fer__> haha
 247 15:37:24 <jjmarin> So clown has a fun club in Madrid :-)
 248 15:37:34 <API> well, 6 minutes over time, we have received a "hi" so ...
 249 15:37:37 <API> meeting over!
 250 15:37:40 <API> #endmeeting