14:37:14 <API> #startmeeting
14:37:14 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Nov 10 14:37:14 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:37:14 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:37:20 <clown> yeah, I was tripped up by the DST change over — remembered at the last minute.
14:37:29 <API> #topic GNOME 3.4 Approved Features
14:38:05 <API> #info on last release-team meeting we talked about features proposals
14:38:31 <API> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2011-November/msg00007.html
14:38:39 <API> #info in relation with a11y proposals
14:39:00 <API> #info GNOME-Shell mag stuff were approved
14:39:18 <API> #info Dots was also approved, although it was suggested to talk with design folks to review it
14:39:24 <joanie> :)
14:39:30 <fer__> :)
14:39:31 <clown> :-)
14:39:37 <jjmarin> :-)
14:39:42 <API> #info Dasher was not accepted as a new feature, but accepted to be included on GNOME modulesets
14:39:59 <API> #info mclasen opinion is that this feature shouldn't be solved with an app
14:40:34 <API> #info imho, this is related with the integration. To be accepted as a feature dasher funcionality should be integrated as caribou was
14:40:45 <API> #info eViacam was not
14:41:02 <API> #info although this is not a surprise. Now we know more about the steps to integrate it
14:41:13 <API> #action API needs to report all the people
14:41:24 <joanie> (report all the people?)
14:41:26 <API> #action clown needs to update https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree/Features
14:41:34 <API> #action joanie needs to update https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree/Features
14:41:43 <API> I mean that I need to notify patrick and cesar about that
14:41:48 <joanie> aha
14:41:50 <joanie> thanks
14:41:51 <clown> right, I started, but I have a couple of questions.
14:41:53 <API> as I just notified clown and joanie
14:41:58 <API> a mon please ;)
14:42:01 <clown> sure
14:42:13 <API> #info not related with features, but mclasen did a good questions
14:42:50 <API> #info he asked if a11y people reviewed GNOME Shell OSK to check about extra a11y features required
14:43:08 <clown> "OSK"?
14:43:34 <API> #info AFAIK, Caribou already have some of them, so first step would be check if GNOME Shell "on screen keyboard" could have them
14:43:39 <API> OSK = on screen keyboard
14:43:51 <API> #action API will send a mail to eitan
14:43:54 <API> done
14:43:57 <API> questions, thoughts?
14:44:01 * clown of course, d'oh
14:44:26 <clown> API, about the features wiki page:  2 questions.
14:45:05 <clown> First, is the text in the emails that we sent sufficient for the "report"
14:45:06 <clown> ?
14:46:04 <clown> wiki-fied, of course.
14:46:06 <API> I think so
14:46:17 <API> most of the features have a similar amount of text
14:46:21 <API> just update it if there
14:46:27 <API> are something new
14:46:39 <clown> okay, that leads to my second question.
14:47:31 <clown> the feature description page is "flat", and there already is a "High Contrast …" link. But I don't think that it has anything to do with the magnifier's high contrast effects.
14:47:52 <clown> Should I "nest" that mag feature within?  Or should it have its own top-level link?
14:48:22 <clown> Similarly for the zoom options dialog — there is a  "System Dialogs" link there already.  sub-topic, or standalone?
14:48:26 <API> well, that feature was added by cosimo, and it is about themes
14:48:33 <clown> right.
14:48:39 <API> and btw, was added after feature proposal deadline
14:48:55 <API> but no, I think that are different things
14:49:00 <API> just add a new item on that page
14:49:21 <API> IMHO, if you add as many points as mails we sent it will be fine
14:49:31 <API> after all, here:
14:49:32 <clown> so, I should add the mag features right at the top (unless there is something that is there specifically for a mag feature, already).
14:49:33 <API> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2011-November/msg00007.html
14:49:37 <API> there are three topics
14:49:53 <API> at the top?
14:50:06 <API> if you mean directly on features page, yes
14:50:32 <clown> Okay, I have a better idea of what to do, then. Thanks.
14:50:54 <API> clown, more questions ?
14:51:37 <clown> no, API, I'm done.
14:51:46 <API> people, questions?
14:52:23 <clown> #action Joseph will add info to 3.4 features page about three magnifier related features.
14:53:25 <API> ok, I suppose that no, no questions about features
14:53:32 <API> #topic Hackfest Update
14:53:44 <API> well in this aspect, there is a missing action from last week
14:53:54 <API> as I needed to send a mail to check availability
14:54:05 <API> but for the ones that missed last meeting
14:54:27 <API> #action plan is having gtk, webkit and a11y hackfests as independent events
14:54:34 <API> ups, that should be a #info
14:54:58 <API> #info current estimated a11y hackfest date: w03 or w04
14:55:08 <API> #action API still needs to ping interested people
14:55:12 <API> Company, btw
14:55:21 <API> the other day on IRC you mentioned that it would be a good idea
14:55:31 <API> to ask some DBUS folk
14:55:36 <API> to come to the a11y meeting
14:55:40 <API> I was thinking about that
14:55:44 <API> what about Colin Walters
14:55:57 <API> AFAIK, he is involved with DBUS
14:56:09 <API> and helped mgorse with at-spi2 sometimes
14:56:12 <Company> i think desrt wanted to attend
14:56:20 <Company> (Ryan Lortie)
14:56:38 <API> yes, he also mentioned that
14:56:48 <Company> he would satisfy the dbus requirement
14:57:22 <API> ok
14:57:51 <API> so people, questions or doubts in this topic?
14:58:36 <mgorse> I think it would be good to create a wiki page to compile a list of problems that we want to solve / discrepancies between the way toolkits work and the way atk works, that make it hard/complicate/dslow to do things. Does anyone have a suggestion as to where to put it? Or does such a page exist already?
14:59:11 <API> mgorse, well, we had that page from last hackfest
14:59:17 <API> but it is true that it would be good to summarize it
14:59:30 <joanie> Sounds like we're talking about a new page
14:59:30 <API> in fact it is a good idea, in order to have an agenda
14:59:50 <mgorse> There were things that Company observed for instance that we didn't discuss last time
15:00:03 <joanie> and perhaps one which should not be hidden under 'hackfests' but given a more prominent hackfest-independent place
15:00:06 <API> mgorse, yes true
15:00:29 <API> joanie, hmm, don't know
15:00:37 <API> as I said it would be good to start to work on the agenda
15:00:45 <API> if we also create a hackfest-independent place
15:00:52 <API> we would have duplicate information
15:00:55 <joanie> no
15:01:07 <joanie> we can link to, use wiki includes, whatever
15:01:36 <API> ok
15:01:40 <mgorse> I think that compiling a list of issues that we might want to solve is slightly different from creating an agenda, anyhow
15:01:49 <joanie> +1
15:01:59 <API> anyway, I think that going so much to the details are somewhat offtopic of the meeting
15:02:06 <API> so lets just generalize to
15:02:35 <API> #action compile a list of issues that we might want to solve
15:02:47 <API> #info that list can be a source for the hackfest agenda
15:02:50 <API> is this ok?
15:03:02 <mgorse> yeah, I'll work on starting that
15:03:03 <joanie> #action Joanie will create a place on live.gnome.org/Accessibility in which to compile these items.
15:03:08 <joanie> oops
15:03:16 <mgorse> oh ok; either way is fine
15:03:26 <joanie> mgorse, I'll make the page and leave it blank <grins>
15:03:31 <joanie> you can compile ;)
15:03:57 <API> ok, so more questions or moving on?
15:05:58 <API> no answer, so lets move
15:06:04 <joanie> 1 sec
15:06:08 <API> ok
15:06:21 <joanie> #info the page is here: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ATK/Issues
15:06:24 <joanie> (done)
15:06:29 <mgorse> Thanks
15:06:39 <joanie> thanks for the great idea!
15:08:01 <API> ok, so moving now
15:08:09 <API> #topic Team Quarterly Reports (Q3)
15:08:14 <API> well, deadline is tomorrow
15:08:28 <joanie> #action Joanie will draft our summary later today
15:08:29 <API> joanie, ?
15:08:40 <joanie> #info Most people seem to have added their parts. (Thanks!)
15:08:53 <clown> wlcm
15:08:55 <joanie> #info Those that have not shall be pinged mercilessly by Joanie
15:09:16 <joanie> pinging myself should be interesting
15:09:24 <joanie> (done)
15:10:14 <API> ok, so anything else inthis topic? quesitons, doubtS?
15:10:21 <jjmarin> :-)
15:10:44 <jjmarin> nop
15:11:38 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
15:11:40 <API> jjmarin, ?
15:11:48 <jjmarin> Not too much this week
15:11:55 <jjmarin> #Info Waiting reply from Karen about the amount of money to be raised by the campaign and next steps to follow
15:12:03 <jjmarin> #Info Also I wanted to get her feedback about our FoG goal before sending to the marketing list
15:12:12 <jjmarin> She's been busy in the UDS this week, so I want to approach her ASAP (mercilessly)
15:12:27 <jjmarin> So my action this week is to be done the action of the week before
15:12:37 <jjmarin> #Info And finally, we still need to update our Roadmap as mentioned by our FoG
15:12:44 <jjmarin> questions ?
15:13:04 <jjmarin> doubts ?
15:13:16 <jjmarin> clown ?
15:13:20 <jjmarin> :-)
15:13:36 <clown> jjmarin, sorry was distracted — catching up.
15:13:52 <jjmarin> :-)
15:14:06 <clown> jjmarin:  do I need to do anything here?
15:14:15 <clown> do you need anything from me, I mean?
15:15:38 <jjmarin> next topic ?
15:15:38 <clown> well, if you do, you know here to find me.
15:16:11 <API> jjmarin, ok
15:16:20 <API> #topic Meeting time and Daylight Saving time
15:16:29 <jjmarin> me again !
15:16:39 <API> well, in summary, it seems that current meeting time is problematic for some people
15:16:41 <API> like jjmarin
15:16:42 <clown> jjmarin is a chatty kathy
15:16:52 <clown> and a singing zombie
15:16:52 <jjmarin> :-)
15:16:52 <API> but it is also true that it is also better for other people
15:16:55 <API> like Company
15:17:08 <jjmarin> ok
15:17:10 <API> is this true ?
15:17:12 <API> jjmarin, Company ?
15:17:20 <jjmarin> for me is worse
15:17:38 <jjmarin> I have to leave work before on my time to get here :-)
15:17:56 <Company> the RH desktop team meets at 11am eastern
15:18:02 <Company> on thursdays
15:18:40 <Company> which is - depending on DST - half an hour or 1.5 hours after the current meeting time
15:18:49 <jjmarin> When is 11am eastern compared to this meeting ?
15:19:05 <joanie> right now it is 10:19 Eastern
15:19:17 <joanie> before meetings went from 10:30 - 11:30 Eastern
15:19:20 <clown> this meeting is 1.5 hours earlier.
15:19:56 * clown notes that north america is now on standard time
15:20:20 <API> jjmarin, as the issue here is about your work, I guess that moving the meeting earlier is not a solution for you, right?
15:20:34 <jjmarin> nop
15:20:46 <jjmarin> For me is better later
15:20:59 <jjmarin> 30 minutes is enough
15:21:16 <jjmarin> but I don't know if this good for Company ?
15:21:27 <mgorse> Sounds like a good compromise
15:22:08 <jjmarin> We can add topics Company topics at the begining and the marketing at the end
15:22:25 <Company> s/Company/RH desktop team/
15:22:36 <jjmarin> :-)
15:23:38 <joanie> conclusions?
15:24:23 <jjmarin> The only problem I see is that miscelaneous time is usually about technical issues
15:24:48 <jjmarin> that Company maybe want to participate but too late for him
15:24:58 <clown> start with miscellaneous time (how chaotic!).
15:25:05 <jjmarin> :-)
15:25:05 <joanie> miscellaneous time is about miscellaneous (not on the agenda)
15:25:29 <clown> then, start with technical issues but on the agenda.
15:25:33 <jjmarin> For me 30 minutes is good +1
15:25:38 <jjmarin> :-)
15:25:48 <clown> so, 15:00 UTC?
15:25:58 <joanie> For me I don't care; I just want a decision. ;)
15:26:31 <API> I agree with joanie
15:26:43 <jjmarin> Company, do you mind ?
15:27:24 <Company> should work for most things
15:27:38 <Company> 1h is a lot to argue ;)
15:27:50 <jjmarin> :-)
15:28:28 <joanie> hearing no objections....
15:28:47 <API> jjmarin, you said that +30 minutes is good
15:28:52 <API> but also agenda reorganization, right?
15:28:54 <jjmarin> yes
15:28:59 <joanie> #info Those present at today's team meeting agreed to give 15:00 UTC a try as the new meeting time.
15:29:18 <joanie> #info In addition we will try more actively to have the agenda jive with team member's schedules.
15:29:33 <joanie> #action Joanie will update the team calendar, wiki, etc. to reflect the new time.
15:29:48 <joanie> right?
15:29:52 <clown> might be a good idea to notify the a11y list about this decision, and do it before the next meeting reminder.
15:29:57 <jjmarin> Ok, let's try it :-)
15:30:13 <joanie> #action Joanie will announce the decision on the a11y team mailing list soon.
15:30:37 * clown after she finishes the quarterly report.
15:30:40 <clown> :-)
15:30:54 <joanie> yeah, yeah
15:31:04 <clown> just helping you ping yourself...
15:31:13 <joanie> speaking of which
15:31:23 <joanie> aleiva_, you write up stuff w.r.t. eZoom?
15:31:27 <joanie> Q3s are due tomorrow
15:32:38 <aleiva_> joanie: negative
15:32:58 <aleiva_> do tou need it for Q3?
15:33:05 <aleiva_> s/tou/you
15:33:07 <API> aleiva_, deadline tomorrow?
15:33:13 <API> and btw, we are out of time
15:33:13 <API> so
15:33:15 <joanie> Sure would like it
15:33:17 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
15:33:18 <aleiva_> ok
15:33:22 <API> someone else to add?
15:33:44 <API> s/someone/something
15:33:49 <API> something==something quick
15:34:45 <clown> a quick thing...
15:34:59 <clown> my co-worker (Colin Clark) got back yesterday from his travels.  He was at the cloud-for-all launch in madrid.  he said various gnome-a11y people were there and send me greetings.
15:35:06 <clown> "Hi" back to y'all.
15:35:08 <clown> (done)
15:35:34 <fer__> clod for all?
15:35:37 <fer__> I missed that one
15:36:07 <clown> not sure who was there — Colin didn't give me any names.  Just that they said "hi".
15:36:29 * clown likes fer__'s take on the name clod instead of cloud...
15:36:41 <joanie> +1
15:36:51 <fer__> haha
15:37:24 <jjmarin> So clown has a fun club in Madrid :-)
15:37:34 <API> well, 6 minutes over time, we have received a "hi" so ...
15:37:37 <API> meeting over!
15:37:40 <API> #endmeeting