1 (15:09:27) API: well, about 10 minutes over time, so I think that it would be better to start
   2 (15:09:37) API: the first point is roadmap, but I prefer joanie here
   3 (15:09:50) API: so lets start with other time hoping she will be here soon
   4 (15:15:07) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Minutes/20101125#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting
   5 (15:15:18) API: again, pyobject migration status
   6 (15:15:27) joanie: sorry forgot it was meeting time. 
   7 (15:15:34) API: sorry pygobject migration
   8 (15:15:36) API: joanie, np
   9 (15:15:44) API: lets finish this point
  10 (15:16:09) API: AFAIR, bnitz and aleiva/jonie has plans, but not short-term plans to review this
  11 (15:16:26) API: eeejay, what about caribou
  12 (15:16:27) API: ?
  13 (15:12:09) API: fer, and it seems that gnome-mag is also included on this task
  14 (15:12:13) API: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=626228
  15 (15:12:27) API: I know that you are not gnome-mag maintainer, but any new about it?
  16 (15:12:53) fer: not really
  17 (15:12:59) fer: I've been quite busy these days
  18 (15:13:13) fer: but I'll try to find time in the upcoming weeks
  19 (15:13:15) API: so other question is
  20 (15:13:22) API: there are anyother to ask about gnome-mag?
  21 (15:13:38) API: I mean, who is the gnome-mag contact?
  22 (15:13:39) fer: you could poke benjamin otte about the gtk3/cairo porting
  23 (15:13:45) fer: was carlos diogenes IIRC
  24 (15:14:06) API: fer, yes carlos, but as far as I remember he was too busy to take care of gnome-mag
  25 (15:14:28) fer: yeah :(
  26 (15:14:36) clown: API: i remember another "carlos" got involved. Summer time frame?
  27 (15:14:52) API: clown, carlos garcia campos
  28 (15:14:55) fer: that was Kal, Carlos Garcia, he helped me with the dbus port
  29 (15:15:00) clown: right, that was it.
  30 (15:15:44) ***clown reading over bugzilla that was mentioned above...
  31 (15:16:08) API: clown, there are a pygobject migration meta-bug
  32 (15:16:17) API: soo the one I pasted is "do that on gnome-mag"
  33 (15:16:34) clown: API, I see. Still, I'm puzzled as to why gnome-mag is involved (since it's written in C).
  34 (15:16:44) fer: gnome-mag does not use python
  35 (15:16:47) clown: oh, it's a configuration thing.
  36 (15:16:53) fer: just for a test 
  37 (15:16:56) clown: "configure.in"
  38 (15:17:02) API: clown, andre kapler created the metabug and
  39 (15:17:12) API: each individual bug basically using a greep
  40 (15:17:13) API: ups
  41 (15:17:14) API: grep
  42 (15:17:17) clown: fer, is that the lilttle python dbus tester I wrote?
  43 (15:17:30) clown: badly worded:
  44 (15:17:30) fer: clown: that one :)
  45 (15:17:34) clown: okay.
  46 (15:17:58) API: fer, so probably this bug is a INVALID
  47 (15:17:59) API: right?
  48 (15:18:07) API: or at least just for the test
  49 (15:18:08) fer: yup
  50 (15:18:27) fer: the tests uses no pygtk, just pyatspi2 iirc
  51 (15:18:34) clown: I see, and it needs to be converted to the new PyGObject implementation?
  52 (15:19:03) ***clown thinks he should add himself to the CC: list on that bug.
  53 (15:19:12) API: clown, well, I have this question on the GNOME 3.0 update, in the at-spi2 question of the day ;)
  54 (15:19:19) API: so I guess that now is a good moment
  55 (15:19:33) API: mgorse, about the last changes on at-spi2 and pyatspi2
  56 (15:19:50) API: it would be required changes on apps using pyatpi2?
  57 (15:20:19) mgorse: API: It shouldn't require changes to apps
  58 (15:20:26) API: mgorse, ok
  59 (15:20:42) API: fer, so this test shouldn't require new pygobject at all, right?
  60 (15:20:54) fer: no, it is plain dbus
  61 (15:20:55) mgorse: although atm some exceptions aren't being reported/reported correctly
  62 (15:20:57) fer: but let me check
  63 (15:21:34) clown: fer, API, so this switch to pygobject has no bearing on how dbus is accessed in python?
  64 (15:21:49) API: clown, no AFAIK
  65 (15:21:55) clown: good!
  66 (15:21:58) API: is about use pygobject
  67 (15:21:58) fer: python-dbus is not going to be deprecated
  68 (15:22:02) API: to all bindings
  69 (15:22:04) fer: ok, we only use gdk for this:
  70 (15:22:07) fer: screen = gtk.gdk.screen_get_default ()
  71 (15:22:15) fer: to get screen size
  72 (15:22:32) clown: I remember that. Any other way to get the screen size?
  73 (15:22:54) API: clown, calling the same method but using pygobject bindings ;)
  74 (15:22:58) API: in order to close this bug
  75 (15:23:04) fer: yeah, should be trivial change
  76 (15:23:06) API: fer: could you write this on the bugzilla
  77 (15:23:16) API: at least in order to know that it is just 
  78 (15:23:23) API: a test migration and not a project migration?
  79 (15:23:44) fer: what is bug number?
  80 (15:23:53) clown: fer, API, I have a different version of the test (I have been using it to test gs-mag/dbus), and those changes need to be merged back into the repository.
  81 (15:24:00) ***clown thinking...
  82 (15:24:33) API: fer https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=626228
  83 (15:25:23) API: well, anything else? or we can move to next item?
  84 (15:25:33) fer: ahh, wait
  85 (15:25:39) fer: there is the colorblind applet!
  86 (15:25:43) fer: that is in python
  87 (15:26:36) fer: I've never used it, but I guess it would need bonobo->dbus port plus pygtk -> pygi port
  88 (15:27:03) API: fer, ok, please write down that on the bug
  89 (15:27:19) API: and lets move, as it seems too many details for the weekly meeting
  90 (15:27:42) fer: I have never used it... but if it changes screen colors on the fly, it would make sense to make it a separate module, in order to get it working with bot magnifiers
  91 (15:27:45) fer: ok
  92 (15:27:53) fer: I'll go back to my lunch :)
  93 (15:27:59) andre: API: Feel free to close as INVALID, it was just a quick and dirty mass bug-filing to keep track what work is still left in that area
  94 (15:28:19) API: andre, well, we are seeing that some bits will require to be migrated
  95 (15:28:38) API: so it is not exactly INVALID, it is just that it is not a full project migration
  96 (15:28:45) API: andre, thanks
  97 (15:29:01) andre: i see
  98 (15:29:10) API: well, so lets go back to the first item of the agenda
  99 (15:29:13) API: roadmap
 100 (15:29:19) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Roadmap
 101 (15:29:34) API: reminder: joanie ask all people to review it and correct it
 102 (15:29:58) ***API I realize that Im still with status away on irc
 103 (15:30:12) API: so people, have you reviewed the roadmap?
 104 (15:30:17) API: what do you think about it?
 105 (15:30:26) joanie: And where is Caribou?
 106 (15:30:28) joanie: :-/
 107 (15:30:30) API: joanie what do you think about the current status?
 108 (15:30:37) API: eeejay, are you here?
 109 (15:31:18) joanie: current status is: We might have one more Orca-related thing to add, plus Caribou
 110 (15:31:30) joanie: Then finish discussing Meego
 111 (15:31:50) joanie: Then create the 'unfunded' document
 112 (15:31:57) joanie: Then re-approach the Board
 113 (15:32:20) API: could you make a summary of the "unfunded" document
 114 (15:32:26) clown: API, joanie: I need to add a few things to the magnification section -- I'll do that right after this meeting is over.
 115 (15:32:33) joanie: thanks clown
 116 (15:32:34) API: I guess that most of the people missed last week meeting
 117 (15:32:34) API: ;)
 118 (15:32:53) joanie: oh right, thanksgiving and 2 AM meeting
 119 (15:33:50) joanie: The "unfunded" document: I think we should have an easy-to-locate-from-the-roadmap but separate document indicating which items on the roadmap are unfunded. And which includes those items on our individual roadmaps which are unfunded, but not on the full-team roadmap
 120 (15:34:32) joanie: But if everyone else wants to slap 'unfunded' within the roadmap, I'm okay with that at this point ;-)
 121 (15:34:37) API: joanie, ok, thanks
 122 (15:34:47) API: joanie, no, I think that we should be as organized as possible
 123 (15:35:05) API: well, there are just one item on discussion
 124 (15:35:14) API: section at the roadmap
 125 (15:35:18) API: so lets discuss it ;)
 126 (15:35:22) API: meego
 127 (15:35:23) joanie: :-)
 128 (15:35:41) API: all agree that this is a interesting item?
 129 (15:35:45) joanie: yup
 130 (15:35:59) clown: need background (elevator speech).
 131 (15:36:19) API: meego is the new platform created by nokia and intel
 132 (15:36:26) API: in theory is a maemo-moblin merge
 133 (15:36:41) API: the theory is that the platform will have a common base
 134 (15:36:49) API: and then several "flavours"
 135 (15:36:55) clown: for handhelds? ah, moblin. That's basically the gnome-shell St toolkit, no?
 136 (15:37:11) API: well, in moblin it is called mx, but yes
 137 (15:37:18) API: and AFAIK this is for notebooks
 138 (15:37:24) API: and then we have the handsets one
 139 (15:37:29) API: that in theory will use qt
 140 (15:37:31) API: the tv
 141 (15:37:32) API: cars
 142 (15:37:33) API: etc
 143 (15:37:43) clown: baby carriages?
 144 (15:37:45) API: anyway, most of the common base technology is gnome and freedesktop
 145 (15:37:57) API: ;)
 146 (15:38:03) API: so, I think that it is interesting
 147 (15:38:19) sebsauer: well, afaik ux/notebook will switch to Qt too
 148 (15:38:21) API: we hope that in this case we got more luck that with hail
 149 (15:38:25) ***clown jsilva, are you listening ^
 150 (15:38:30) API: sebsauer, yeah probably
 151 (15:38:45) API: anyway, foundation has created recently a project
 152 (15:39:02) API: in order to make gtk working on meego
 153 (15:39:16) API: and anyway, although the default is Qt
 154 (15:39:29) API: the long-term plan of accessibility is Qt using at-spi2 and Orca
 155 (15:39:38) API: clown, taking into account all the background
 156 (15:39:46) API: you also agrees that it is interesting ?
 157 (15:39:53) clown: yes.
 158 (15:39:56) jsilva: API, does this mean keyboard navigation is back?
 159 (15:39:58) sebsauer: yeah, getting those Qt atspi bridge working is rather fundamental but not so easy it seems :-/
 160 (15:40:11) API: jsilva, is back where?
 161 (15:40:21) API: I don¡t understand your question
 162 (15:40:40) jsilva: my understanding was that the last MAEMO wasn't keyboard navigable
 163 (15:40:56) jsilva: and maemo will now be meego right?
 164 (15:41:03) jsilva: maybe I am confused
 165 (15:41:29) API: jsilva, about maemo being or not keyboard navigable
 166 (15:41:37) API: was hildon-desktop the one not keyboard navigable
 167 (15:42:02) API: although I think that this is too much details for the weekly meeting
 168 (15:42:14) jsilva: not sure, I think so... I just remember they didn't have focus properties for widgets
 169 (15:42:23) API: I already added a "study" section
 170 (15:42:33) clown: to the roadmap?
 171 (15:42:48) API: clown, jsilva 
 172 (15:42:50) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Roadmap#Meego
 173 (15:42:54) API: we are discussing this
 174 (15:43:06) API: so independently of the technical details
 175 (15:43:15) ***clown reading
 176 (15:43:16) API: people, you agree that this is interesting?
 177 (15:43:27) ***joanie still agrees
 178 (15:44:05) API: well, I will assume that yes
 179 (15:44:15) API: so next step would be 
 180 (15:44:30) API: dates and priority
 181 (15:44:36) API: at least joanie ask me that ;)
 182 (15:44:57) ***joanie is becoming anal about dates w.r.t. the roadmap
 183 (15:45:07) API: well, the fact is that I would prefer this to be managed after "gtk on meego" project
 184 (15:45:17) API: and in the same way, meego is right now on his earlier stages
 185 (15:45:24) API: so it is hard to set a date
 186 (15:45:36) joanie: API project for chrissake :-)
 187 (15:45:40) joanie: we can move it later on
 188 (15:45:41) joanie: :-)
 189 (15:45:57) API: so I vote to put something like "after June 2011, exact dates depends on X and Y"
 190 (15:46:09) joanie: ugh (lol)
 191 (15:46:10) API: and as roadmap is date sorted
 192 (15:46:22) API: place it instead of a TBD section
 193 (15:46:30) joanie: so put it in June 2011 - June 2012
 194 (15:46:39) joanie: in the description state that the dates depend on x and y
 195 (15:46:43) API: ah, well this is other option
 196 (15:46:52) API: and that it could be delayed, ok
 197 (15:46:57) joanie: neat thing about roadmaps and wikis is that they are not stone
 198 (15:47:00) joanie: ;-)
 199 (15:47:12) API: well, I have said all about this item
 200 (15:47:19) API: anything else about meego item?
 201 (15:47:25) joanie: 'tis a good item, thanks for adding it!
 202 (15:47:57) API: any other item to be discussed not-written-yet on the roadmap?
 203 (15:48:08) ***joanie coughs "caribou"
 204 (15:48:30) ***clown that's a nasty cough yah got there, joanie
 205 (15:48:38) joanie: :-P @ clown
 206 (15:48:42) jsilva: just finished reading... i'll follow more closely since I am doing some mobile stuff
 207 (15:48:54) API: jsilva, afaik java, right?
 208 (15:48:56) ***clown puts a cough drop on joanie's tongue
 209 (15:49:19) jsilva: yes, Dalvik
 210 (15:49:41) jsilva: but it'd be cool to provide Meego support for the Tekla shield
 211 (15:49:57) jsilva: didn't you come up with that name?
 212 (15:50:14) jsilva: or was it jrocha? don't remember
 213 (15:50:45) jrocha: jsilva, it was me
 214 (15:50:45) API: jsilva, ok thanks
 215 (15:50:54) jrocha: ;)
 216 (15:50:56) API: well, anything else about roadmap?
 217 (15:51:16) ***sebsauer points at http://gitorious.org/qt-at-spi/qt-at-spi but that's probably out-of-scope
 218 (15:51:21) API: joanie, do you have any plan regardless the unfunded document?
 219 (15:51:25) jsilva: jrocha, good name!
 220 (15:51:33) API: sebsauer, hmm, good question
 221 (15:51:40) API: but
 222 (15:51:42) joanie: API it's on my to do list for next week
 223 (15:51:47) API: as this is a GNOME roadmap
 224 (15:51:56) API: not sure if qt-bridge fits here
 225 (15:51:59) joanie: My plan is to write it based on what I know, making guesses as I go
 226 (15:52:09) joanie: and then ask y'all for a sanity/reality check
 227 (15:52:18) API: so yes, that's is , imho, out of scope
 228 (15:52:40) API: joanie, again the "draft and review approach"
 229 (15:53:01) API: do you know more or less when you will have a initial draft?
 230 (15:53:05) joanie: I think so, if there are no objections. It seems to work better than a bunch of us crafting a document from scratch
 231 (15:53:16) joanie: Uhhh.... How 'bout by next meeting?
 232 (15:54:00) joanie: I'll try to do it sooner though
 233 (15:54:04) API: joanie, ok, thanks
 234 (15:54:38) API: well, anything else about roadmap?
 235 (15:56:31) ***API hello darkness my old friend
 236 (15:56:37) API: well, 5 minutes to go
 237 (15:56:44) API: so, miscellaneous time
 238 (15:57:10) API: anyone wants to comment something out of agenda? (or on agenda but that we didn¡t have time to talk about=
 239 (15:57:12) API: )
 240 (15:57:55) joanie: Has google code-in ops come and gone already?
 241 (15:58:30) API: joanie, no idea
 242 (15:58:45) API: joanie, last meeting conclusion said something about send a mail
 243 (15:58:51) API: and I didn¡t do that ...
 244 (15:58:56) joanie: oops
 245 (15:58:58) joanie: ;-)
 246 (15:59:25) joanie: I ask simply because it's been on the agenda for like a month, and Bryen's missed that many meetings
 247 (15:59:28) API: well, lets write down this again "check if google code-in is already here, send mail to Bryen"
 248 (15:59:31) joanie: so we've not discussed it
 249 (16:00:30) API: I will try to do my homework this time
 250 (16:00:33) API: anything else?
 251 (16:00:43) API: be fast as we are officially out of time
 252 (16:00:45) joanie: no worries API, you do awesome and we have too much 'homework'