(15:09:27) API: well, about 10 minutes over time, so I think that it would be better to start
(15:09:37) API: the first point is roadmap, but I prefer joanie here
(15:09:50) API: so lets start with other time hoping she will be here soon
(15:15:07) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Minutes/20101125#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting
(15:15:18) API: again, pyobject migration status
(15:15:27) joanie: sorry forgot it was meeting time. 
(15:15:34) API: sorry pygobject migration
(15:15:36) API: joanie, np
(15:15:44) API: lets finish this point
(15:16:09) API: AFAIR, bnitz and aleiva/jonie has plans, but not short-term plans to review this
(15:16:26) API: eeejay, what about caribou
(15:16:27) API: ?
(15:12:09) API: fer, and it seems that gnome-mag is also included on this task
(15:12:13) API: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=626228
(15:12:27) API: I know that you are not gnome-mag maintainer, but any new about it?
(15:12:53) fer: not really
(15:12:59) fer: I've been quite busy these days
(15:13:13) fer: but I'll try to find time in the upcoming weeks
(15:13:15) API: so other question is
(15:13:22) API: there are anyother to ask about gnome-mag?
(15:13:38) API: I mean, who is the gnome-mag contact?
(15:13:39) fer: you could poke benjamin otte about the gtk3/cairo porting
(15:13:45) fer: was carlos diogenes IIRC
(15:14:06) API: fer, yes carlos, but as far as I remember he was too busy to take care of gnome-mag
(15:14:28) fer: yeah :(
(15:14:36) clown: API: i remember another "carlos" got involved. Summer time frame?
(15:14:52) API: clown, carlos garcia campos
(15:14:55) fer: that was Kal, Carlos Garcia, he helped me with the dbus port
(15:15:00) clown: right, that was it.
(15:15:44) ***clown reading over bugzilla that was mentioned above...
(15:16:08) API: clown, there are a pygobject migration meta-bug
(15:16:17) API: soo the one I pasted is "do that on gnome-mag"
(15:16:34) clown: API, I see. Still, I'm puzzled as to why gnome-mag is involved (since it's written in C).
(15:16:44) fer: gnome-mag does not use python
(15:16:47) clown: oh, it's a configuration thing.
(15:16:53) fer: just for a test 
(15:16:56) clown: "configure.in"
(15:17:02) API: clown, andre kapler created the metabug and
(15:17:12) API: each individual bug basically using a greep
(15:17:13) API: ups
(15:17:14) API: grep
(15:17:17) clown: fer, is that the lilttle python dbus tester I wrote?
(15:17:30) clown: badly worded:
(15:17:30) fer: clown: that one :)
(15:17:34) clown: okay.
(15:17:58) API: fer, so probably this bug is a INVALID
(15:17:59) API: right?
(15:18:07) API: or at least just for the test
(15:18:08) fer: yup
(15:18:27) fer: the tests uses no pygtk, just pyatspi2 iirc
(15:18:34) clown: I see, and it needs to be converted to the new PyGObject implementation?
(15:19:03) ***clown thinks he should add himself to the CC: list on that bug.
(15:19:12) API: clown, well, I have this question on the GNOME 3.0 update, in the at-spi2 question of the day ;)
(15:19:19) API: so I guess that now is a good moment
(15:19:33) API: mgorse, about the last changes on at-spi2 and pyatspi2
(15:19:50) API: it would be required changes on apps using pyatpi2?
(15:20:19) mgorse: API: It shouldn't require changes to apps
(15:20:26) API: mgorse, ok
(15:20:42) API: fer, so this test shouldn't require new pygobject at all, right?
(15:20:54) fer: no, it is plain dbus
(15:20:55) mgorse: although atm some exceptions aren't being reported/reported correctly
(15:20:57) fer: but let me check
(15:21:34) clown: fer, API, so this switch to pygobject has no bearing on how dbus is accessed in python?
(15:21:49) API: clown, no AFAIK
(15:21:55) clown: good!
(15:21:58) API: is about use pygobject
(15:21:58) fer: python-dbus is not going to be deprecated
(15:22:02) API: to all bindings
(15:22:04) fer: ok, we only use gdk for this:
(15:22:07) fer: screen = gtk.gdk.screen_get_default ()
(15:22:15) fer: to get screen size
(15:22:32) clown: I remember that. Any other way to get the screen size?
(15:22:54) API: clown, calling the same method but using pygobject bindings ;)
(15:22:58) API: in order to close this bug
(15:23:04) fer: yeah, should be trivial change
(15:23:06) API: fer: could you write this on the bugzilla
(15:23:16) API: at least in order to know that it is just 
(15:23:23) API: a test migration and not a project migration?
(15:23:44) fer: what is bug number?
(15:23:53) clown: fer, API, I have a different version of the test (I have been using it to test gs-mag/dbus), and those changes need to be merged back into the repository.
(15:24:00) ***clown thinking...
(15:24:33) API: fer https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=626228
(15:25:23) API: well, anything else? or we can move to next item?
(15:25:33) fer: ahh, wait
(15:25:39) fer: there is the colorblind applet!
(15:25:43) fer: that is in python
(15:26:36) fer: I've never used it, but I guess it would need bonobo->dbus port plus pygtk -> pygi port
(15:27:03) API: fer, ok, please write down that on the bug
(15:27:19) API: and lets move, as it seems too many details for the weekly meeting
(15:27:42) fer: I have never used it... but if it changes screen colors on the fly, it would make sense to make it a separate module, in order to get it working with bot magnifiers
(15:27:45) fer: ok
(15:27:53) fer: I'll go back to my lunch :)
(15:27:59) andre: API: Feel free to close as INVALID, it was just a quick and dirty mass bug-filing to keep track what work is still left in that area
(15:28:19) API: andre, well, we are seeing that some bits will require to be migrated
(15:28:38) API: so it is not exactly INVALID, it is just that it is not a full project migration
(15:28:45) API: andre, thanks
(15:29:01) andre: i see
(15:29:10) API: well, so lets go back to the first item of the agenda
(15:29:13) API: roadmap
(15:29:19) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Roadmap
(15:29:34) API: reminder: joanie ask all people to review it and correct it
(15:29:58) ***API I realize that Im still with status away on irc
(15:30:12) API: so people, have you reviewed the roadmap?
(15:30:17) API: what do you think about it?
(15:30:26) joanie: And where is Caribou?
(15:30:28) joanie: :-/
(15:30:30) API: joanie what do you think about the current status?
(15:30:37) API: eeejay, are you here?
(15:31:18) joanie: current status is: We might have one more Orca-related thing to add, plus Caribou
(15:31:30) joanie: Then finish discussing Meego
(15:31:50) joanie: Then create the 'unfunded' document
(15:31:57) joanie: Then re-approach the Board
(15:32:20) API: could you make a summary of the "unfunded" document
(15:32:26) clown: API, joanie: I need to add a few things to the magnification section -- I'll do that right after this meeting is over.
(15:32:33) joanie: thanks clown
(15:32:34) API: I guess that most of the people missed last week meeting
(15:32:34) API: ;)
(15:32:53) joanie: oh right, thanksgiving and 2 AM meeting
(15:33:50) joanie: The "unfunded" document: I think we should have an easy-to-locate-from-the-roadmap but separate document indicating which items on the roadmap are unfunded. And which includes those items on our individual roadmaps which are unfunded, but not on the full-team roadmap
(15:34:32) joanie: But if everyone else wants to slap 'unfunded' within the roadmap, I'm okay with that at this point ;-)
(15:34:37) API: joanie, ok, thanks
(15:34:47) API: joanie, no, I think that we should be as organized as possible
(15:35:05) API: well, there are just one item on discussion
(15:35:14) API: section at the roadmap
(15:35:18) API: so lets discuss it ;)
(15:35:22) API: meego
(15:35:23) joanie: :-)
(15:35:41) API: all agree that this is a interesting item?
(15:35:45) joanie: yup
(15:35:59) clown: need background (elevator speech).
(15:36:19) API: meego is the new platform created by nokia and intel
(15:36:26) API: in theory is a maemo-moblin merge
(15:36:41) API: the theory is that the platform will have a common base
(15:36:49) API: and then several "flavours"
(15:36:55) clown: for handhelds? ah, moblin. That's basically the gnome-shell St toolkit, no?
(15:37:11) API: well, in moblin it is called mx, but yes
(15:37:18) API: and AFAIK this is for notebooks
(15:37:24) API: and then we have the handsets one
(15:37:29) API: that in theory will use qt
(15:37:31) API: the tv
(15:37:32) API: cars
(15:37:33) API: etc
(15:37:43) clown: baby carriages?
(15:37:45) API: anyway, most of the common base technology is gnome and freedesktop
(15:37:57) API: ;)
(15:38:03) API: so, I think that it is interesting
(15:38:19) sebsauer: well, afaik ux/notebook will switch to Qt too
(15:38:21) API: we hope that in this case we got more luck that with hail
(15:38:25) ***clown jsilva, are you listening ^
(15:38:30) API: sebsauer, yeah probably
(15:38:45) API: anyway, foundation has created recently a project
(15:39:02) API: in order to make gtk working on meego
(15:39:16) API: and anyway, although the default is Qt
(15:39:29) API: the long-term plan of accessibility is Qt using at-spi2 and Orca
(15:39:38) API: clown, taking into account all the background
(15:39:46) API: you also agrees that it is interesting ?
(15:39:53) clown: yes.
(15:39:56) jsilva: API, does this mean keyboard navigation is back?
(15:39:58) sebsauer: yeah, getting those Qt atspi bridge working is rather fundamental but not so easy it seems :-/
(15:40:11) API: jsilva, is back where?
(15:40:21) API: I don¡t understand your question
(15:40:40) jsilva: my understanding was that the last MAEMO wasn't keyboard navigable
(15:40:56) jsilva: and maemo will now be meego right?
(15:41:03) jsilva: maybe I am confused
(15:41:29) API: jsilva, about maemo being or not keyboard navigable
(15:41:37) API: was hildon-desktop the one not keyboard navigable
(15:42:02) API: although I think that this is too much details for the weekly meeting
(15:42:14) jsilva: not sure, I think so... I just remember they didn't have focus properties for widgets
(15:42:23) API: I already added a "study" section
(15:42:33) clown: to the roadmap?
(15:42:48) API: clown, jsilva 
(15:42:50) API: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Roadmap#Meego
(15:42:54) API: we are discussing this
(15:43:06) API: so independently of the technical details
(15:43:15) ***clown reading
(15:43:16) API: people, you agree that this is interesting?
(15:43:27) ***joanie still agrees
(15:44:05) API: well, I will assume that yes
(15:44:15) API: so next step would be 
(15:44:30) API: dates and priority
(15:44:36) API: at least joanie ask me that ;)
(15:44:57) ***joanie is becoming anal about dates w.r.t. the roadmap
(15:45:07) API: well, the fact is that I would prefer this to be managed after "gtk on meego" project
(15:45:17) API: and in the same way, meego is right now on his earlier stages
(15:45:24) API: so it is hard to set a date
(15:45:36) joanie: API project for chrissake :-)
(15:45:40) joanie: we can move it later on
(15:45:41) joanie: :-)
(15:45:57) API: so I vote to put something like "after June 2011, exact dates depends on X and Y"
(15:46:09) joanie: ugh (lol)
(15:46:10) API: and as roadmap is date sorted
(15:46:22) API: place it instead of a TBD section
(15:46:30) joanie: so put it in June 2011 - June 2012
(15:46:39) joanie: in the description state that the dates depend on x and y
(15:46:43) API: ah, well this is other option
(15:46:52) API: and that it could be delayed, ok
(15:46:57) joanie: neat thing about roadmaps and wikis is that they are not stone
(15:47:00) joanie: ;-)
(15:47:12) API: well, I have said all about this item
(15:47:19) API: anything else about meego item?
(15:47:25) joanie: 'tis a good item, thanks for adding it!
(15:47:57) API: any other item to be discussed not-written-yet on the roadmap?
(15:48:08) ***joanie coughs "caribou"
(15:48:30) ***clown that's a nasty cough yah got there, joanie
(15:48:38) joanie: :-P @ clown
(15:48:42) jsilva: just finished reading... i'll follow more closely since I am doing some mobile stuff
(15:48:54) API: jsilva, afaik java, right?
(15:48:56) ***clown puts a cough drop on joanie's tongue
(15:49:19) jsilva: yes, Dalvik
(15:49:41) jsilva: but it'd be cool to provide Meego support for the Tekla shield
(15:49:57) jsilva: didn't you come up with that name?
(15:50:14) jsilva: or was it jrocha? don't remember
(15:50:45) jrocha: jsilva, it was me
(15:50:45) API: jsilva, ok thanks
(15:50:54) jrocha: ;)
(15:50:56) API: well, anything else about roadmap?
(15:51:16) ***sebsauer points at http://gitorious.org/qt-at-spi/qt-at-spi but that's probably out-of-scope
(15:51:21) API: joanie, do you have any plan regardless the unfunded document?
(15:51:25) jsilva: jrocha, good name!
(15:51:33) API: sebsauer, hmm, good question
(15:51:40) API: but
(15:51:42) joanie: API it's on my to do list for next week
(15:51:47) API: as this is a GNOME roadmap
(15:51:56) API: not sure if qt-bridge fits here
(15:51:59) joanie: My plan is to write it based on what I know, making guesses as I go
(15:52:09) joanie: and then ask y'all for a sanity/reality check
(15:52:18) API: so yes, that's is , imho, out of scope
(15:52:40) API: joanie, again the "draft and review approach"
(15:53:01) API: do you know more or less when you will have a initial draft?
(15:53:05) joanie: I think so, if there are no objections. It seems to work better than a bunch of us crafting a document from scratch
(15:53:16) joanie: Uhhh.... How 'bout by next meeting?
(15:54:00) joanie: I'll try to do it sooner though
(15:54:04) API: joanie, ok, thanks
(15:54:38) API: well, anything else about roadmap?
(15:56:31) ***API hello darkness my old friend
(15:56:37) API: well, 5 minutes to go
(15:56:44) API: so, miscellaneous time
(15:57:10) API: anyone wants to comment something out of agenda? (or on agenda but that we didn¡t have time to talk about=
(15:57:12) API: )
(15:57:55) joanie: Has google code-in ops come and gone already?
(15:58:30) API: joanie, no idea
(15:58:45) API: joanie, last meeting conclusion said something about send a mail
(15:58:51) API: and I didn¡t do that ...
(15:58:56) joanie: oops
(15:58:58) joanie: ;-)
(15:59:25) joanie: I ask simply because it's been on the agenda for like a month, and Bryen's missed that many meetings
(15:59:28) API: well, lets write down this again "check if google code-in is already here, send mail to Bryen"
(15:59:31) joanie: so we've not discussed it
(16:00:30) API: I will try to do my homework this time
(16:00:33) API: anything else?
(16:00:43) API: be fast as we are officially out of time
(16:00:45) joanie: no worries API, you do awesome and we have too much 'homework'