Attachment '20101111_log.txt'
Download 1 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 11 07:40:00 2010
2
3 Nov 11 07:40:00 * Now talking on #a11y
4 Nov 11 07:40:01 * Topic for #a11y is: Visit us at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility | New weekly meeting times to be announced soon | See our latest meeting summary at http://bit.ly/ctMqVI | Follow us on Twitter: @gnome_a11y | Subscribe to our mailing list at http://is.gd/bmcWR
5 Nov 11 07:40:01 * Topic for #a11y set by Bryen at Sat Apr 10 00:34:07 2010
6 Nov 11 07:41:17 * joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y
7 Nov 11 07:53:52 * FlaPer87 (~flavioper@83-103-19-90.ip.fastwebnet.it) has joined #a11y
8 Nov 11 08:01:13 * msanchez (~msanchez@44.24.60.213.dynamic.mundo-r.com) has joined #a11y
9 Nov 11 08:03:22 * yevlempy (~yevlempy@115.248.34.146) has joined #a11y
10 Nov 11 08:05:51 <aleiva> morning or something similar
11 Nov 11 08:06:01 <joanie> aleiva: dang you're up too
12 Nov 11 08:06:17 <joanie> way to go dedicated (but sleep-deprived) Orca team
13 Nov 11 08:06:29 <API> hello, I think that 5 minutes waiting for sleepy people is enough
14 Nov 11 08:07:53 * jrocha (~JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) has joined #a11y
15 Nov 11 08:08:01 <aleiva> so
16 Nov 11 08:08:10 <API> well, checking agenda
17 Nov 11 08:08:14 <API> today here
18 Nov 11 08:08:17 <aleiva> ok, thanks API :-)
19 Nov 11 08:08:23 * danigm_out is now known as danigm
20 Nov 11 08:08:23 <API> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Minutes/20101104#Agenda_for_the_next_meeting
21 Nov 11 08:09:12 <API> 1. is this google-in code in....
22 Nov 11 08:09:28 <API> I guess that finally we would require to contact Bryen directly
23 Nov 11 08:09:50 <API> so lets move to point 2
24 Nov 11 08:09:54 <API> Boston summit
25 Nov 11 08:10:06 <API> so, impressions?
26 Nov 11 08:10:08 <API> AFAIR
27 Nov 11 08:10:23 <API> joanie, aleiva mgorse were there
28 Nov 11 08:12:06 <joanie> Well, let's see
29 Nov 11 08:12:20 <joanie> we actually got to attend Heidi's student's presentation
30 Nov 11 08:12:25 <joanie> which was very cool
31 Nov 11 08:12:58 <joanie> But it also seems like these students could use some more guidance from us
32 Nov 11 08:13:36 <joanie> And if I recall correctly, Heidi's not been able to connect with the folks currently working on Caribou from the CFR
33 Nov 11 08:13:46 <joanie> aleiva is going to help with that
34 Nov 11 08:13:52 <joanie> (the connections)
35 Nov 11 08:14:13 * joanie pauses to see if aleiva has anything to add on that front (Heidi/caribou)
36 Nov 11 08:14:58 * joanie assumes not
37 Nov 11 08:15:01 <joanie> okay, moving on
38 Nov 11 08:15:04 <aleiva> nothing more, we agree that we need to connect current people that is doing
39 Nov 11 08:15:07 <aleiva> thanks for wait
40 Nov 11 08:15:15 <joanie> we also met with the gnome-shell folks
41 Nov 11 08:15:27 <joanie> and some others regarding a11y infrastructurey things
42 Nov 11 08:15:31 <joanie> but mostly the shell
43 Nov 11 08:15:56 <joanie> Lots of discussion on how to "integrate" (or get better working together) Orca and gnome-shell
44 Nov 11 08:16:00 <joanie> and lots of good ideas
45 Nov 11 08:16:05 <API> a11y infrastructurey things?
46 Nov 11 08:16:06 <joanie> and plenty of questions
47 Nov 11 08:16:14 <joanie> API yeah
48 Nov 11 08:16:15 <joanie> :-)
49 Nov 11 08:16:37 <joanie> Benjamin Otte is taking an interest in Atk, AT-SPI, toolkit implementation, etc.
50 Nov 11 08:16:48 <joanie> which I think is marvelous because it seems that he is brilliant
51 Nov 11 08:17:01 <joanie> and brilliant fresh blood from existing developers is always welcome
52 Nov 11 08:17:03 <API> he is thinking on help on this part?
53 Nov 11 08:17:14 <joanie> that isn't entirely clear to me
54 Nov 11 08:17:20 <joanie> he's definitely curious and concerned
55 Nov 11 08:17:24 <joanie> and busy with other things
56 Nov 11 08:17:41 <API> yes, AFAIK he is really busy
57 Nov 11 08:17:42 <joanie> I encouraged Benjamin to ask his questions on the gnome-accessibility-list
58 Nov 11 08:17:52 <API> he id doing all this gdk revamp
59 Nov 11 08:18:02 <API> he was here to the gtk hackfest
60 Nov 11 08:18:06 <API> and he will be here
61 Nov 11 08:18:10 <joanie> even if all he does is participate in discussions to help us think things through, that would be someting
62 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 11 08:19:49 2010
63
64 Nov 11 08:19:49 * Now talking on #a11y
65 Nov 11 08:19:55 <API> urgh
66 Nov 11 08:19:59 <joanie> heh
67 Nov 11 08:20:04 <joanie> welcome back API
68 Nov 11 08:20:12 <API> for any reason I was logged out
69 Nov 11 08:20:14 <API> anyway
70 Nov 11 08:20:16 <API> blabla
71 Nov 11 08:20:18 <joanie> so as I was saying (or about to say)
72 Nov 11 08:20:22 <API> Benjamin is really busy
73 Nov 11 08:20:30 <joanie> since Benjamin will be in Coruña
74 Nov 11 08:20:30 <API> he will be here (coruña) again for the webkig
75 Nov 11 08:20:35 <joanie> and since you're already there
76 Nov 11 08:20:37 <API> webkitgtk hackfest
77 Nov 11 08:20:40 <joanie> perhaps you can touch base with him
78 Nov 11 08:20:48 <joanie> about Boston and his thoughts and his questions
79 Nov 11 08:21:01 <joanie> (you really should have been at the Summit API)
80 Nov 11 08:21:08 <joanie> anyway....
81 Nov 11 08:21:22 <API> well, if he is really interested he would touch base by himself ;)
82 Nov 11 08:21:25 <API> anyway
83 Nov 11 08:21:37 <joanie> Point taken
84 Nov 11 08:21:41 <API> anything else about boston summit?
85 Nov 11 08:21:46 <joanie> But as I was also told at the summit
86 Nov 11 08:22:01 <joanie> we are apparently expected to be The ReacherOuters
87 Nov 11 08:22:03 <joanie> :-P
88 Nov 11 08:22:13 <joanie> aleiva: other things about the summit
89 Nov 11 08:22:17 * joanie yields the floor
90 Nov 11 08:22:24 <aleiva> compiz-ezoom
91 Nov 11 08:22:28 <joanie> ohhh
92 Nov 11 08:22:28 <joanie> yeah
93 Nov 11 08:22:39 <joanie> aleiva: do share please
94 Nov 11 08:22:40 <joanie> :-)
95 Nov 11 08:22:54 <aleiva> multitasking, sorry
96 Nov 11 08:22:54 <aleiva> so
97 Nov 11 08:23:07 <API> you were told to be the reachouters?
98 Nov 11 08:23:09 <API> explicitly?
99 Nov 11 08:23:41 <aleiva> we start to talk with Kristian about the current implementation of ezoom and what is needed to integrate in Orca
100 Nov 11 08:24:55 <aleiva> summarizing, Orca is a screen reader, magnifier is not our bussiness. Then, we define a roadmap to see what is needed to be done in ezoom to be compatible with at-spi
101 Nov 11 08:26:06 <API> ok
102 Nov 11 08:26:13 <API> mgorse, something from your side?
103 Nov 11 08:26:47 <mgorse> about the summit?
104 Nov 11 08:26:50 <API> yes
105 Nov 11 08:27:05 <API> we are now talking about boston summit update
106 Nov 11 08:27:45 <mgorse> I talked with j5 a bit; made progress on some gobject introspection related issues I was having with at-spi
107 Nov 11 08:28:06 <API> j5 is john palmieri?
108 Nov 11 08:28:11 <aleiva> yup
109 Nov 11 08:28:12 <mgorse> yes
110 Nov 11 08:28:16 <API> ok, thanks
111 Nov 11 08:28:20 <API> go on please
112 Nov 11 08:28:50 <mgorse> and went to the Caribou presentation and uniersal acessibility discussion, and some other general talks
113 Nov 11 08:30:20 <API> ok, thanks
114 Nov 11 08:30:47 <API> well, I think that it is enough about Boston Summit
115 Nov 11 08:31:01 <API> hmm, OgMaciel you were also on BSummit
116 Nov 11 08:31:14 <API> do you want to share anything?
117 Nov 11 08:34:37 <API> ok, enough time waiting ;)
118 Nov 11 08:34:39 <API> lets move
119 Nov 11 08:34:53 <API> next item
120 Nov 11 08:34:55 <API> Status of the migration to PyGObject GnomeGoals/PythonIntrospectionPorting https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=626218
121 Nov 11 08:35:09 <API> we already talked about this some months ago
122 Nov 11 08:35:19 <API> but I think that we postponed that
123 Nov 11 08:35:35 <API> because we were not sure about the pygobject status
124 Nov 11 08:36:00 <API> this affects at least, to orca, caribou and accerciser
125 Nov 11 08:36:18 <API> aleiva, joanie do you have any plan here?
126 Nov 11 08:36:25 <aleiva> I don't expect to be extremely hard in Orca if no side-effects appear
127 Nov 11 08:36:29 * joanie chuckles
128 Nov 11 08:37:04 <API> well, that would mean that it wouldnt be difficult to do
129 Nov 11 08:37:08 <API> my question was more
130 Nov 11 08:37:09 <aleiva> but, in the Orca side, nothing has been done yet. Only analyze the current situation of pygobject what's the difference and so
131 Nov 11 08:37:18 <API> yes, that
132 Nov 11 08:38:08 <aleiva> plan
133 Nov 11 08:38:08 <aleiva> the plan is I'm going to dig on it
134 Nov 11 08:38:08 <aleiva> this is a spare-time task, then
135 Nov 11 08:38:14 <API> hmm
136 Nov 11 08:38:24 * yevlempy is now known as yev|away
137 Nov 11 08:38:37 <API> but what we need to ask if pygtk is going to be deprecated to gnome 3.0
138 Nov 11 08:38:42 <API> if this is the case
139 Nov 11 08:38:45 <aleiva> anyway I expect it sooner than later
140 Nov 11 08:38:57 <API> this task is another gnome 3.0 risk
141 Nov 11 08:40:13 <API> bnitz, any plan on accerciser?
142 Nov 11 08:41:57 <joanie> aleiva: and I will help you of course
143 Nov 11 08:41:57 <joanie> but I'm defering to your expertise here
144 Nov 11 08:41:57 <joanie> to figure out what it is we need to do
145 Nov 11 08:41:57 <aleiva> that's clear
146 Nov 11 08:41:57 <aleiva> is more the testing phase what where I need help
147 Nov 11 08:41:57 <joanie> I can help you with that as well
148 Nov 11 08:41:57 <joanie> though a full 3.0 testing environment is desired
149 Nov 11 08:41:57 <joanie> we can at least get started
150 Nov 11 08:41:57 <aleiva> I know, thanks joanie
151 Nov 11 08:41:57 <aleiva> API: replying to your question, the plan is try to add this in our tight schedule
152 Nov 11 08:41:57 <aleiva> thight08:14 <aleiva> pff
153 Nov 11 08:41:57 <aleiva> 08:14 <aleiva> well,
154 Nov 11 08:41:57 <aleiva> awesome copy and paste again
155 Nov 11 08:41:57 <aleiva> sorry
156 Nov 11 08:41:57 * joanie laughs
157 Nov 11 08:41:57 <joanie> 02:00 meetings are fun, ain't they? :-P
158 Nov 11 08:41:57 <aleiva> joanie: last time happens to me at 16:00 then I don't see the difference :-)
159 Nov 11 08:42:39 <API> ;)
160 Nov 11 08:42:45 <aleiva> moving on?
161 Nov 11 08:42:46 <API> danigm, you here?
162 Nov 11 08:42:57 * aleiva turn into a blue man
163 Nov 11 08:43:35 <API> well, it seems that we are mostly alone
164 Nov 11 08:43:38 <API> so yes lets move
165 Nov 11 08:43:40 * joanie shoves another marshmallow at aleiva and then splatters paint
166 Nov 11 08:44:01 <API> GNOME 3.0 updates
167 Nov 11 08:44:20 <API> well, if we confirm that pygtk is going to be deprecated
168 Nov 11 08:44:30 <API> this is also a GNOME 3.0 issue
169 Nov 11 08:44:31 <aleiva> I think so
170 Nov 11 08:44:38 <API> we should send a list to the mail
171 Nov 11 08:44:39 <API> ups
172 Nov 11 08:44:43 <API> we should send a mail to the list
173 Nov 11 08:44:46 <API> desktop devel list
174 Nov 11 08:45:01 <API> or gtk one
175 Nov 11 08:45:03 <danigm> API: yep
176 Nov 11 08:45:11 <API> ah, hello danigm
177 Nov 11 08:45:17 <API> you are still working on Caribou?
178 Nov 11 08:46:19 <danigm> I never worked in caribou...
179 Nov 11 08:46:21 <aleiva> danigm was working in caribou? I don't think so he was working in evince, but danigm can explan far better han me
180 Nov 11 08:46:51 <aleiva> API: people from <I need to remember again the company> was working in caribou
181 Nov 11 08:46:55 <aleiva> WARP
182 Nov 11 08:47:10 <API> danigm, ups sorry
183 Nov 11 08:47:18 <aleiva> yes, Warp
184 Nov 11 08:47:18 <API> my fault
185 Nov 11 08:48:14 <API> I mistook david with daniel
186 Nov 11 08:48:43 <API> anyway, as we are on gnome 3.0, and as I already disturbed you
187 Nov 11 08:48:56 <API> danigm, any update on evince a11y status?
188 Nov 11 08:49:24 <danigm> API: no
189 Nov 11 08:49:37 <API> ok, thanks
190 Nov 11 08:50:01 <API> lets continue about GNOME 3.0 update
191 Nov 11 08:50:03 <API> ah yes
192 Nov 11 08:50:07 <API> about gnome-panel
193 Nov 11 08:50:16 <API> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3#gnome-panel
194 Nov 11 08:50:26 <API> I sent a mail to Fer and Carlos
195 Nov 11 08:50:34 <API> and no, they didn't work directly on it
196 Nov 11 08:50:44 <API> I will edit that section with his answer
197 Nov 11 08:50:53 <API> but Carlos also told me that
198 Nov 11 08:51:01 <API> gnome-panel is somewhat forgotten
199 Nov 11 08:51:10 <API> no gtk 3.0 or gsettings migration
200 Nov 11 08:51:15 <API> this is not a surprise
201 Nov 11 08:51:37 <API> but not a good situation
202 Nov 11 08:51:41 <API> as gnome-shell mantra also
203 Nov 11 08:51:43 <API> includes
204 Nov 11 08:51:53 <API> "for people without the proper hw 3d support
205 Nov 11 08:52:04 <API> you will have the blessed gnome-panel, dont worry"
206 Nov 11 08:52:39 <API> so, again, I guess that we will need to bother desktop-devel or
207 Nov 11 08:52:40 <API> hmm
208 Nov 11 08:52:59 <API> which list you use when you want to ask something about gnome-panel?
209 Nov 11 08:54:55 <API> makes sense?
210 Nov 11 08:55:13 <aleiva> I'll use desktop-dev I don't know if exists a gnome-panel specific :-/
211 Nov 11 08:55:31 <API> any other quick GNOME 3.0 update?
212 Nov 11 08:56:12 <aleiva> umh, not exactly related but there was some talks about unity in boston summit
213 Nov 11 08:56:24 <aleiva> what I want to say is
214 Nov 11 08:56:39 <aleiva> for me, it seems like GNOME 3.0 is going to be a real platform
215 Nov 11 08:56:49 <aleiva> with excessive amount of windows-managers
216 Nov 11 08:56:49 <aleiva> :-D
217 Nov 11 08:57:24 <API> well, aleiva although unity will be in the ecosystem
218 Nov 11 08:57:35 <API> I doubt that it will be a core gnome
219 Nov 11 08:57:37 <API> module
220 Nov 11 08:57:46 <aleiva> no, absolutely not
221 Nov 11 08:57:56 <API> so, it is something to watch out
222 Nov 11 08:58:12 <API> but not a "real" issue
223 Nov 11 08:58:24 <API> ok, so lets conclude GNOME 3.0 and
224 Nov 11 08:58:27 <aleiva> API: yeah, I only added as curiosity, something to watch
225 Nov 11 08:58:32 <API> with just 2 minutes left
226 Nov 11 08:58:36 <API> aleiva, of course
227 Nov 11 08:58:37 <API> with just 2 minutes left
228 Nov 11 08:58:42 <API> miscellaneous time!
229 Nov 11 08:58:49 * aleiva goes to sleep
230 Nov 11 08:59:15 <joanie> I've only got one
231 Nov 11 08:59:17 <API> has anyone something else to say not included on the agenda?
232 Nov 11 08:59:21 <API> shoot
233 Nov 11 08:59:24 <joanie> Just for the record
234 Nov 11 08:59:36 <joanie> since we were, uh, absent from the Q2 gnome report
235 Nov 11 08:59:47 <joanie> We will be present in the Q3s
236 Nov 11 09:00:00 <joanie> I added our report to the GNOME Marketing wiki: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/QuarterlyReports/2010/Q3#Accessibility_Team
237 Nov 11 09:00:18 <joanie> and want to thank everyone who submitted something on the a11y team wiki for q3
238 Nov 11 09:00:30 <joanie> the reality is, if you look at everything we did
239 Nov 11 09:00:42 <joanie> our little team does an AMAZING amount
240 Nov 11 09:00:59 <joanie> with not that many resources
241 Nov 11 09:01:05 <joanie> that's all
242 Nov 11 09:01:10 <API> goo
243 Nov 11 09:01:12 <API> d
244 Nov 11 09:01:14 <API> hmm
245 Nov 11 09:01:15 <API> good
246 Nov 11 09:01:20 <joanie> goo is good
247 Nov 11 09:01:29 <API> anything else? people?
248 Nov 11 09:01:30 <API> ...
249 Nov 11 09:02:03 <msanchez> not sure whether is worth mentioning but...
250 Nov 11 09:02:45 <msanchez> in the webkitgtk front I'd just want to say that we're approaching a point where almost all the bugs blocking ORCA support are fixed (I mean for static -basic- content)
251 Nov 11 09:03:19 <API> yeah, joanie just a crazy idea
252 Nov 11 09:03:30 <API> but probably it would be good to redefine the scope
253 Nov 11 09:03:34 <API> of the current meta-bug
254 Nov 11 09:03:35 <msanchez> and that we were lucky enough to have KaL helping as well during these past two weeks with a couple of bugs that were worrying me a lot (you know joanie, those ones I was lost about)
255 Nov 11 09:03:42 <joanie> msanchez: you so, so, so rock
256 Nov 11 09:03:46 <API> instead of the generic one used now
257 Nov 11 09:03:54 <API> if not, this bug will be there for ages
258 Nov 11 09:03:56 <joanie> msanchez: you're never lost
259 Nov 11 09:04:01 <joanie> API I agree
260 Nov 11 09:04:12 <aleiva> msanchez: congratulations
261 Nov 11 09:04:14 <joanie> I was honestly planning on creating a new metabug
262 Nov 11 09:04:20 <joanie> after checking with y'all
263 Nov 11 09:04:35 <aleiva> joanie: we decided that?
264 Nov 11 09:04:41 <joanie> and only adding stuff to 25531 if they impact the original goal (basic support for yelp)
265 Nov 11 09:04:41 <aleiva> I think so
266 Nov 11 09:04:48 <aleiva> or is another metabug?
267 Nov 11 09:04:49 <joanie> aleiva: secided what?
268 Nov 11 09:04:52 <aleiva> I need to sleep
269 Nov 11 09:04:58 <joanie> aleiva: you need to sleep ;-)
270 Nov 11 09:05:00 <joanie> aleiva: but
271 Nov 11 09:05:13 <joanie> we have an existing WebKitGtk (in their tracker) metabug
272 Nov 11 09:05:17 <msanchez> thing is that, current status wrt that metabug is: 7 bugs pending, 3 of them with proposed patches, 1 work-in-progress and the other 3 in the TODO queue
273 Nov 11 09:05:30 <joanie> aleiva: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25531
274 Nov 11 09:05:40 <aleiva> yes, I know
275 Nov 11 09:05:46 <joanie> msanchez: there will be at least one more bug I will add
276 Nov 11 09:05:57 <joanie> there's something strange going on with text selection caret offsets
277 Nov 11 09:06:04 <msanchez> just wanted to share with you all the status so you get a rough picture
278 Nov 11 09:06:20 <msanchez> joanie: great. I was expecting that (and even more bugs) after the summit
279 Nov 11 09:06:33 <joanie> aleiva: So the point of that original bug was basic support with the (unwritten) intent/target of Yelp 3.0
280 Nov 11 09:06:51 <joanie> aleiva: So creating a new Orca metabug in their tracker serves one main purpose
281 Nov 11 09:07:01 <joanie> closure for those developers (Igalians mostly)
282 Nov 11 09:07:11 <joanie> because they will have successfully achieved their goal
283 Nov 11 09:07:21 <joanie> and new stuff is new work imho
284 Nov 11 09:07:24 <joanie> anyhoo....
285 Nov 11 09:07:33 <joanie> msanchez: I'm not so sure about "even more bugs"
286 Nov 11 09:07:43 <joanie> for the most part, things are honestly "just working"
287 Nov 11 09:07:49 <joanie> you should try it with Orca ;-)
288 Nov 11 09:08:02 <joanie> you really have done an amazing amount of very cool work msanchez
289 Nov 11 09:08:22 <msanchez> joanie: well, I meant I wouldn't be surprised if you filed a bunch of them after boston, but if you don't do it perhaps that's a good sign :-)
290 Nov 11 09:08:26 <msanchez> thx
291 Nov 11 09:08:40 <joanie> (it's a good sign)
292 Nov 11 09:09:08 <API> well, almost 10 minutes over time
293 Nov 11 09:09:10 <msanchez> It could have been even better if this past month I was not jinxed (broken environment, broken laptop, too much paperwork...)
294 Nov 11 09:09:12 <API> anything else?
295 Nov 11 09:09:17 <msanchez> nope from my side
296 Nov 11 09:09:22 <joanie> nothing here
297 Nov 11 09:09:27 <API> apart of complain about laptop problems ;)
298 Nov 11 09:09:32 <joanie> lol
299 Nov 11 09:09:37 <API> ok, so lets close the meeting
300 Nov 11 09:09:39 <msanchez> not complaining, just sharing
301 Nov 11 09:09:41 <API> a11y meeting over
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