Attachment '20100712_log.txt'
Download 1 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 8 08:03:57 2010
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3 Jul 08 08:03:57 * Now talking on #a11y
4 Jul 08 08:05:05 <API> sorry, I'm late
5 Jul 08 08:05:25 <API> joanie, has the meeting started already?
6 Jul 08 08:05:30 <joanie> no sir
7 Jul 08 08:05:41 * TheMuso waves.
8 Jul 08 08:05:43 <joanie> It's not a meeting without you
9 Jul 08 08:07:46 <API> well, I think that its time to start it
10 Jul 08 08:08:07 <joanie> :-)
11 Jul 08 08:08:28 * msanchez (~msanchez@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) has joined #a11y
12 Jul 08 08:08:52 <API> well, first item AEGIS hackfest
13 Jul 08 08:09:36 <API> agenda is here
14 Jul 08 08:09:41 <API> and nobody complain about it
15 Jul 08 08:09:52 <joanie> heh
16 Jul 08 08:09:56 <API> so we can suppose that all people agrees ;)
17 Jul 08 08:10:14 <joanie> (you get my email regarding Peter's proposed possible topic?)
18 Jul 08 08:10:58 <API> joanie, hmmm
19 Jul 08 08:11:02 * API reading now
20 Jul 08 08:12:54 <API> ok, so korn proposed a item about Qt and Meego
21 Jul 08 08:13:16 <API> jpwhiting is not here to ask him ;)
22 Jul 08 08:14:09 <API> joanie, I'm not against it, although not sure which people could talk about it from the current list of attendees
23 Jul 08 08:14:18 <joanie> Right
24 Jul 08 08:14:33 <API> my experience with Meego is with Maemo
25 Jul 08 08:14:36 <joanie> But peter said 'if the Qt/TollTech/Nokia guys were to appear'
26 Jul 08 08:14:38 <API> and related with Hildon
27 Jul 08 08:14:53 <joanie> I figured that they would be the ones to talk about it??
28 Jul 08 08:15:12 <joanie> My question is more around which of the attendees would be interested in that?
29 Jul 08 08:15:24 <joanie> Perhaps we should talk more about this later(??)
30 Jul 08 08:15:42 <API> well, I have been working on a11y at maemo, hildon-gtk => hail-gail
31 Jul 08 08:15:58 <API> so I would be interested in hear them
32 Jul 08 08:16:05 <API> about plans in Meego
33 Jul 08 08:16:31 <API> hmmm, and after all, I have just remember that clutter is also a meego technology :P
34 Jul 08 08:16:50 <joanie> Ok.... Then I guess we should figure out where to put it on the schedule.
35 Jul 08 08:17:49 <API> joanie, although as you have already said, 'if the Qt/TollTech/Nokia guys were to appear'
36 Jul 08 08:18:03 <API> we need these people to appear
37 Jul 08 08:18:06 <joanie> Well, it's the same thing as with Shaun
38 Jul 08 08:18:15 <API> we could ask jpwhiting
39 Jul 08 08:18:24 <API> joanie, the same thing as with Shaun?
40 Jul 08 08:18:42 <joanie> If Shaun doesn't come, documentation day is kinda shot.
41 Jul 08 08:18:59 <joanie> And Shaun needs funding, etc. He's not yet committed to coming.
42 Jul 08 08:19:27 <API> joanie, ah ok
43 Jul 08 08:19:40 <joanie> Let's talk more about this later. (Full agenda, etc.)
44 Jul 08 08:20:13 <API> ok, funding
45 Jul 08 08:20:24 <API> fer didn't say nothing
46 Jul 08 08:20:40 <API> so I suppose that CENATIC help is still "work in progress"
47 Jul 08 08:20:46 * raywang has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
48 Jul 08 08:20:48 <API> anyway as peter korn said last week
49 Jul 08 08:21:03 <API> we need to get in contact with foundation soon
50 Jul 08 08:21:13 <joanie> Indeed
51 Jul 08 08:21:26 <API> Bryen, if you are here, have you tried another funding options?
52 Jul 08 08:23:14 * dani (~dexem@167.108.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined #a11y
53 Jul 08 08:25:56 <API> well it seems that Bryen is not here ;)
54 Jul 08 08:26:01 <API> BTW: people
55 Jul 08 08:26:24 * API wonders if there are a broadcast warning
56 Jul 08 08:26:44 <API> remember that Bryen sent a mail about the quarter report
57 Jul 08 08:27:02 <API> write down what you have done about a11y the last three months
58 Jul 08 08:27:14 <API> I suppose apr-may-jun
59 Jul 08 08:27:17 <API> and send him
60 Jul 08 08:28:03 * raywang (~raywang@emperor.canonical.com) has joined #a11y
61 Jul 08 08:28:50 <API> well, going again with the funding thing
62 Jul 08 08:29:10 <API> we are approaching a limit
63 Jul 08 08:29:22 <API> were we need to get in contact with foundation
64 Jul 08 08:29:37 <API> and then we could search for alternative funding sources
65 Jul 08 08:29:43 <joanie> +1
66 Jul 08 08:29:55 <API> so..., I think that we would need to get in contact with foundation soon
67 Jul 08 08:30:14 <API> using attendees and 'hope to attend'
68 Jul 08 08:30:23 <API> tables on http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HackfestAEGIS2010
69 Jul 08 08:31:27 <API> and going on with AEGIS
70 Jul 08 08:31:29 <API> next item is
71 Jul 08 08:31:35 <API> "Other updates "
72 Jul 08 08:31:50 <API> ;)
73 Jul 08 08:31:51 <joanie> (Don't think there are any)
74 Jul 08 08:32:09 <API> ok, lets move to next poing
75 Jul 08 08:32:15 <API> s/poing/point
76 Jul 08 08:32:25 <API> HFOSS/OUTREACH
77 Jul 08 08:32:54 <API> well, joanie included here news about CSUN
78 Jul 08 08:33:14 <API> foundation has confirmed that will pay the booth
79 Jul 08 08:33:41 <API> eeejay, did anyone from foundation put in contact with you?
80 Jul 08 08:35:28 * joanie wonders if API, TheMuso, and she are the only three actually here
81 Jul 08 08:35:38 <dani> I'm also here
82 Jul 08 08:35:42 <API> msanchez, is also here
83 Jul 08 08:35:43 * dani is now known as dexem
84 Jul 08 08:35:56 <mgorse> I'm here
85 Jul 08 08:36:05 <API> in fact, I can hit him with a stick, is just two meters away
86 Jul 08 08:36:29 <joanie> API please don't beat msanchez (until all the WebKitGtk bugs are fixed)
87 Jul 08 08:36:52 <dexem> about eeejay he seems a little bit away... even by mail (I sent him a ping a couple of days ago :P)
88 Jul 08 08:37:18 * sshaw has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
89 Jul 08 08:37:31 <API> well, we can conclude that point as
90 Jul 08 08:37:43 <API> foundation will pay CSUN 2011 booth
91 Jul 08 08:37:56 <API> foundation people will try to get in contact with eeejay
92 Jul 08 08:38:16 <API> I hope they would have more lucky than you, dexem
93 Jul 08 08:38:31 <dexem> :)
94 Jul 08 08:38:54 <API> next point
95 Jul 08 08:38:57 <API> gnome 3.0 status
96 Jul 08 08:39:44 <API> remember people
97 Jul 08 08:39:46 <API> update
98 Jul 08 08:39:51 <API> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3
99 Jul 08 08:40:09 <API> joanie, added a mini-item about evince status
100 Jul 08 08:40:34 <joanie> Yeah, who exactly is doing that work?
101 Jul 08 08:40:50 * API opening evince bug
102 Jul 08 08:41:16 <API> danigm, are you here?
103 Jul 08 08:42:19 <danigm> API: yep
104 Jul 08 08:42:59 <API> danigm, you are working on evince a11y right now, afaik
105 Jul 08 08:43:10 <danigm> yes
106 Jul 08 08:43:13 * dpellicer (~dpellicer@14.Red-88-26-177.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #a11y
107 Jul 08 08:43:37 <API> ok, there are a item about evince
108 Jul 08 08:43:41 <danigm> in fact, a11y is "working" in evince master
109 Jul 08 08:43:53 <API> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3#Evince
110 Jul 08 08:43:57 <danigm> AtkText is implemented
111 Jul 08 08:44:05 <API> it would be awesome if you update that item
112 Jul 08 08:44:17 <API> something like "current status" and "remaining work"
113 Jul 08 08:44:20 <API> just a summary ;)
114 Jul 08 08:44:25 <joanie> danigm: That's awesome! (You should announce that on the Orca list)
115 Jul 08 08:44:37 <joanie> Get users testing, etc.
116 Jul 08 08:45:18 <API> danigm, for example, it could be good to change "NO RESOURCES" for something more real
117 Jul 08 08:45:30 * jpwhiting (~jeremy@193.185.223.3) has joined #a11y
118 Jul 08 08:45:30 * joanie chuckles
119 Jul 08 08:46:35 * API have just started a storm, with several thunders
120 Jul 08 08:46:47 <API> ok, lets move to other gnome 3.0 items
121 Jul 08 08:47:04 <API> yesterday I added a point about gsettings
122 Jul 08 08:47:39 <API> right now several apps like orca
123 Jul 08 08:47:47 <API> has started the gsettings migration
124 Jul 08 08:48:13 <API> and probably this will affect the universal access preferences
125 Jul 08 08:49:00 <API> I fear that probably this UI will found a mixed environment
126 Jul 08 08:49:13 <API> and will require to use gconf and gsettings
127 Jul 08 08:49:28 <joanie> But gconf is out for 3.0, right?
128 Jul 08 08:49:41 <joanie> So I don't think it *can* find a mixed environment
129 Jul 08 08:50:24 <API> yes it can, but I suppose that it is not the ideal situation
130 Jul 08 08:50:36 <dexem> the gconf/gsettings migration is a "as best as possible" scenario or is it mandatory?
131 Jul 08 08:50:46 <joanie> I thought it was mandatory
132 Jul 08 08:50:52 <API> dexem, as best as possible, afaik
133 Jul 08 08:51:36 <danigm> API: should I change the risk level of evince?
134 Jul 08 08:51:46 <dexem> API: I imagine it should be, although looking at the gnome 3 schedule, there is a "countdown" of modules with gconf
135 Jul 08 08:51:51 <dexem> or expected countdown
136 Jul 08 08:52:09 <API> danigm, yes it is a good idea, it was high because nobody was assigned to that task,
137 Jul 08 08:52:21 <API> danigm, I think that medium risk is fine
138 Jul 08 08:52:34 <API> danigm, people assigned but work not finished
139 Jul 08 08:53:19 <API> dexem, and this links to my other comment
140 Jul 08 08:53:25 <API> on the agenda
141 Jul 08 08:53:34 <API> right now the main gconf var
142 Jul 08 08:53:44 <API> "/desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility"
143 Jul 08 08:53:55 <API> the one saying if a11yy is enabled
144 Jul 08 08:54:10 <API> are defined in a schema from libgnome
145 Jul 08 08:54:18 * API or was libgnomeui?
146 Jul 08 08:54:23 <API> correct me if I'm wrong
147 Jul 08 08:54:47 <API> and as you know
148 Jul 08 08:54:53 <API> both are deprecated
149 Jul 08 08:55:12 <aleiva> hi, sorry, late
150 Jul 08 08:55:24 <API> so probably this is a good moment to define it as a gsettins var
151 Jul 08 08:55:30 <API> and in other library
152 Jul 08 08:55:48 <API> joanie, you know if there were plans to move that gconf var to other place?
153 Jul 08 08:55:59 <joanie> I'm not aware of any
154 Jul 08 08:56:08 <API> my limited memory things that I read something about it in the past
155 Jul 08 08:56:10 <API> but not sure
156 Jul 08 08:56:21 <mgorse> It's in the at-spi schema, unless I'm missing something
157 Jul 08 08:56:57 <mgorse> regardless, it needs to be a g_settings variable, though
158 Jul 08 08:57:27 * API checking....
159 Jul 08 08:57:39 <API> mgorse, btw, you have started the g_setting migration also?
160 Jul 08 08:58:14 <API> mgorse, I have just reviewed at-spi2.schemas.in
161 Jul 08 08:58:20 <API> and vars defined here are
162 Jul 08 08:58:36 <API> schemas/apps/gnome_settings_daemon/gtk-modules/gail:atk-bridge
163 Jul 08 08:58:37 <API> and
164 Jul 08 08:58:44 <API> schemas/desktop/gnome/interface/at-spi-dbus
165 Jul 08 08:59:18 <API> one option could add that gconf/g_setting var here
166 Jul 08 08:59:20 <API> after all
167 Jul 08 08:59:29 <mgorse> API: I haven't yet. I ought to work on it this weekend, since 2.31.5 is due Monday
168 Jul 08 08:59:30 <API> without at-spi you don't have a11y support
169 Jul 08 09:01:16 <mgorse> right
170 Jul 08 09:01:30 * API btw mgorse https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28580
171 Jul 08 09:02:08 <API> ok, well, as we are out of time
172 Jul 08 09:02:13 <API> we can conclude this point as
173 Jul 08 09:02:32 <API> "probably at-spi is a good place to put it, further investigation is required"
174 Jul 08 09:02:50 <API> so, anyone want to share a final thought before officially
175 Jul 08 09:02:57 <API> concluding the a11y meeting?
176 Jul 08 09:03:04 <joanie> I do, actually
177 Jul 08 09:03:13 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591258
178 Jul 08 09:03:25 <joanie> And maybe I should just add that to my list
179 Jul 08 09:03:49 <joanie> But when people come to the gnome-accessibility-list and ask for our opinion on the accessibility of a change....
180 Jul 08 09:03:58 <joanie> And we totally do not respond, it's kinda sucky
181 Jul 08 09:04:03 <joanie> And I've not seen anyone respond
182 Jul 08 09:04:53 <API> joanie, yes indeed, .... well, I have take a brief look on the bug, but
183 Jul 08 09:05:21 <API> I havent test it, although I didn't realize any a11y related issue
184 Jul 08 09:06:05 <joanie> API do you have time to take a closer look?
185 Jul 08 09:06:11 <joanie> Or should I add it to my list?
186 Jul 08 09:07:31 <API> joanie, well, it seems that what it is required
187 Jul 08 09:07:35 <API> is apply the patch
188 Jul 08 09:07:44 <API> and test it with Orca, or other a11y tool
189 Jul 08 09:07:45 <API> right?
190 Jul 08 09:07:47 <joanie> I know that
191 Jul 08 09:07:57 <joanie> DayJob, Orca, etc., etc.
192 Jul 08 09:08:01 <joanie> I'll add it to my list
193 Jul 08 09:09:15 <API> joanie, ok thanks, try to avoid that universe becoming a subset of your list
194 Jul 08 09:09:35 <joanie> That's what I was trying to do ;-)
195 Jul 08 09:13:38 <API> ok, lets conclude the meeting now
196 Jul 08 09:13:48 <API> as we are *really* out of time
197 Jul 08 09:13:58 <API> anyway, if the people are interested
198 Jul 08 09:14:13 * yev|away is now known as yevlempy
199 Jul 08 09:14:18 <API> now a parallel topic
200 Jul 08 09:14:36 <API> dexem, wants to talks about current caribou status
201 Jul 08 09:14:38 <API> dexem, ?
202 Jul 08 09:14:48 <dexem> hi
203 Jul 08 09:14:57 <dexem> just a small status update
204 Jul 08 09:15:33 <dexem> dpellicer and me have been doing some work for caribou during the last weeks
205 Jul 08 09:16:04 <dexem> I'm now trying to integrate those changes and uploading them as patches to bugzilla
206 Jul 08 09:16:35 <dexem> We would do it directly to different branches on git, but I asked for an account some time ago
207 Jul 08 09:16:45 <dexem> and I haven't received a response yet :P
208 Jul 08 09:17:03 <joanie> Some time ago == how long ago?
209 Jul 08 09:17:17 <dexem> I was checking it to be accurate
210 Jul 08 09:17:23 <dexem> but like two weeks ago
211 Jul 08 09:17:26 <dexem> if not three :P
212 Jul 08 09:17:31 <API> dexem, well, as I already said to you, sometimes there are a big delay on their answer
213 Jul 08 09:17:37 <joanie> official time is 2 to 4 weeks
214 Jul 08 09:17:45 <API> you can try to make a gently ping
215 Jul 08 09:18:17 <joanie> dexem: Alternatively, who is vouching for you? eeejay?
216 Jul 08 09:18:59 <dexem> uhm, I said that I was going to work on caribou, so I suppose he is
217 Jul 08 09:19:12 <dexem> and also I added some other names from GNOME Hispano
218 Jul 08 09:19:23 <dexem> who surely would vouch for me as well
219 Jul 08 09:19:54 <joanie> The reason I ask is that if an existing module maintainer pings the accounts team saying that they really need you to have git access, it might speed things up
220 Jul 08 09:20:18 <dexem> anyway, now I first need some time to extract those patches
221 Jul 08 09:20:19 <joanie> Since this is caribou-related, maybe eeejay can send such a message?
222 Jul 08 09:20:26 <dexem> joanie: ok
223 Jul 08 09:20:35 <dexem> yes I think he could
224 Jul 08 09:20:43 <dexem> I'll try to ping him again
225 Jul 08 09:20:56 <dexem> I did it on tuesday, because caribou missed the last release
226 Jul 08 09:21:08 <joanie> ugh
227 Jul 08 09:21:13 <dexem> and maybe he wants help also for make the tarballs or something
228 Jul 08 09:21:53 <dexem> I think it would be in high risk if it misses a second one :P
229 Jul 08 09:22:14 <joanie> it's certainly not looked upon favorably
230 Jul 08 09:24:15 <dexem> well, that's mostly the big picture
231 Jul 08 09:28:56 <API> ok dexem thanks for the update
232 Jul 08 09:29:26 * jpwhiting has quit (Remote closed the connection)
233 Jul 08 09:34:00 * andre (~andre@dslb-092-076-132-102.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #a11y
234 Jul 08 09:51:53 * Disconnected (Invalid argument).
235 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 8 09:51:53 2010
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