1 18:06:20 <darci> #startmeeting
   2 18:06:20 <tota11y> Meeting started Fri Feb  8 18:06:20 2013 CET.  The chair is darci. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 18:06:20 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 18:06:33 <darci> #topic Updates
   5 18:06:51 <darci> Amber do you want to start?
   6 18:07:03 <amber> I could probably simplify everything Stoney for simplier reading
   7 18:07:06 <amber> Sure.
   8 18:07:33 <amber> I just tried using a different webcam to see if an error would go away, but it seems that it doesn't matter regardless.
   9 18:07:48 <amber> I also emailed the tutorial guy about opencv, and his email is outdated
  10 18:07:59 <heidi> Ah, OK.
  11 18:08:07 <heidi> Did you ping the A11y community about this?
  12 18:08:12 <amber> Working to port some things to opencv 2 today to see if I can make more progress
  13 18:08:46 <heidi> Amber, have we asked Joanie if she knows an opencv expert? I can't remember.
  14 18:09:00 <amber> I was waiting to here back from the contact, but now I can ping a11y
  15 18:09:11 <amber> i dont think so
  16 18:09:30 <darci> #info Would like to find someone with opencv expertise
  17 18:09:32 <heidi> Ah, OK.
  18 18:09:43 <amber> #action ping a11y for opencv support
  19 18:09:52 <heidi> joanie, would you happen to know someone with opencv expertise?
  20 18:10:02 <joanie> not off the top of my head
  21 18:10:15 * joanie wonders if API_afk does
  22 18:10:35 * API_afk reading
  23 18:10:37 <heidi> Ah, thanks. Amber who is the most advanced in working with MouseTrap is still struggling with conversion.
  24 18:10:39 <API_afk> opencv expertise?
  25 18:10:40 <API_afk> no sorry
  26 18:10:47 <API_afk> I never needed to
  27 18:10:49 <heidi> Thanks API_aft
  28 18:10:57 <API_afk> heidi, no problem, and sorry
  29 18:11:00 <heidi> :-)
  30 18:11:23 <joanie> if I keep scrolling up will I find what the specific problem is?
  31 18:11:24 <heidi> Joanie, any idea where to go? Would asking the larger gnome community work?
  32 18:11:37 <amber> where are you looking joanie?
  33 18:11:56 <joanie> amber: what I mean is.... What specific problem are you having?
  34 18:11:56 <heidi> amber, can you describe the general problem?
  35 18:12:05 <joanie> I wasn't paying attention to this conversation until I was pinged
  36 18:12:10 <amber> creating an image roi
  37 18:12:24 <Stoney> roi?
  38 18:12:31 <joanie> is there an open cv list?
  39 18:12:35 <amber> list?
  40 18:12:43 <joanie> region of interest I assume
  41 18:12:49 <joanie> mailing list
  42 18:12:55 <amber> not sure
  43 18:12:56 <joanie> where are the open cv devs?
  44 18:13:02 <joanie> that is where I would start
  45 18:13:16 <heidi> Ah, thanks.
  46 18:13:20 <joanie> figure out where the opencv devs live (community-wize)
  47 18:13:22 <amber> they have a git
  48 18:13:25 <joanie> and what tools they use
  49 18:13:27 <amber> opencv.org
  50 18:13:28 <heidi> A recent list of issues is here: http://www.xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Status#2.4.2013
  51 18:13:28 <joanie> for communication
  52 18:13:33 * joanie looks
  53 18:13:36 <heidi> Ah, right!
  54 18:13:41 * heidi thinks "duh"!
  55 18:13:56 <joanie> http://answers.opencv.org/questions/
  56 18:14:42 <joanie> http://www.packtpub.com/cool-projects-with-opencv/book
  57 18:14:45 <heidi> What joanie just suggested (which I didn't think of) is to contact the opencv community directly.
  58 18:15:02 <joanie> that's where the opencv expertise likely is
  59 18:15:07 * joanie grins
  60 18:15:28 <heidi> :-) Right
  61 18:15:32 <heidi> Thank you!
  62 18:16:10 <heidi> #action Contact opencv community - amber
  63 18:16:12 <joanie> http://opencv.org/contribute.html has a link for email
  64 18:16:43 <heidi> Amber let me know if you want to walk through approaching the community using IRC.
  65 18:16:58 <amber> the a11y community?
  66 18:17:44 <heidi> The opencv community
  67 18:17:50 <heidi> That is where we should be asking the questions.
  68 18:17:56 * joanie nods
  69 18:17:56 <heidi> At least about opencv
  70 18:17:57 <amber> ok.
  71 18:18:02 <joanie> and if all those attempts fail
  72 18:18:20 <joanie> please let me and API_afk know and we'll help you more actively try to get some answers
  73 18:18:24 <amber> i just think out of context, it would be hard to describe the problem to an outside person
  74 18:18:49 <joanie> being able to show them some code might help
  75 18:18:52 <heidi> Yes, but you have the logs of the errors to which you can point people.
  76 18:18:54 <heidi> Right'
  77 18:19:39 <joanie> I'm trying to accomplish x. Here's my code. Here's the error. Here's what the docs say. Could you please tell me how to do this-very-specific-thing.
  78 18:20:06 <joanie> i.e. busy devs like to see some indication that you did all the appropriate stuff yourself and know what you are talking about
  79 18:20:18 <joanie> but are having a specific problem
  80 18:20:24 <heidi> Yes, exactly.
  81 18:21:20 <darci> Does anyone else have an update?
  82 18:21:22 <joanie> amber: does this all make sense?
  83 18:21:30 <joanie> (sorry darci)
  84 18:21:35 <amber> yes
  85 18:21:38 <darci> No prob!
  86 18:21:40 <joanie> awesome
  87 18:21:41 <heidi> Good.
  88 18:21:47 * joanie goes back to her to do list
  89 18:21:51 <joanie> ping me if you need me :)
  90 18:21:53 <heidi> You're doing a great job in tracking down the issues amber.
  91 18:21:55 <darci> Thanks!
  92 18:22:00 <joanie> and thanks again for all your work guys! :)
  93 18:22:07 <heidi> Yes, thanks joanie! You're a peach!
  94 18:22:23 <heidi> Any other questions on how to proceed amber?
  95 18:22:34 <amber> not now
  96 18:22:59 <heidi> Great.
  97 18:23:46 <heidi> Who is next?
  98 18:23:57 <Logan> I'll go.
  99 18:24:47 <Logan> I updated to Fedora 18 earlier this week which corrupted my install. I have been forced to start from scratch, so I'm working on getting caught back up to where I was
 100 18:25:02 <heidi> Ah, that isn't fun.
 101 18:25:14 <amber> is the goal to switch to 18 now or later in the process?
 102 18:25:19 <heidi> Do you know what Nikki's status is? Or the status of the install on the lab machine?
 103 18:25:37 * heidi thinks about upgrading timing
 104 18:25:48 <Stoney> I can give you Nikki's status
 105 18:26:02 <heidi> Logan, do you know what the problem was with your upgrade to 18?
 106 18:26:05 <Stoney> Nikki has fedora 18 installed on a computer in the lab
 107 18:26:24 <Stoney> Nikki has cloned amber's fork
 108 18:26:58 <Stoney> But she is looking into using GitHub to fork amber's fork, and then work off a clone of that
 109 18:26:59 <heidi> Ah, good!
 110 18:27:17 <Stoney> allowing her to contribute back to amber by making a pull request through github
 111 18:27:19 <amber> it might be easier if i just add her as a collaborater
 112 18:27:26 <Stoney> might be :)
 113 18:27:27 <heidi> Ah, OK.
 114 18:27:29 <heidi> :-)
 115 18:27:34 <amber> so we can see eachothers progress
 116 18:27:43 <amber> especially if everyone is going to start to code
 117 18:27:49 <Logan> heidi, I'm not sure exactly what caused the error, but the install was missing files after it rebooted that prevented me from booting into anything
 118 18:27:52 <amber> it wouldn't make sense to go to 5 forks
 119 18:27:52 <Stoney> yup, just have to keep the branches straight
 120 18:28:15 <heidi> Amber, I don't know what to tell you about updating to Fedora 18. Think what I'd do is get a reasonable version of MouseTrap, commit it to github, then upgrade to 18.
 121 18:28:25 <amber> sounds good
 122 18:28:37 <heidi> Then if something goes wrong, you can still get a copy of your work on mousetrap.
 123 18:28:44 <heidi> Right, I agree.
 124 18:28:52 <Stoney> I think Nikki has a github account, but I don't know what her name is on there
 125 18:28:57 <Logan> It may have been an issue with my download being corrupt, I'm not entirily sure. The directions on the Fedora site for upgrading from 17 to 18 are not great, since they switched the process in which it happens
 126 18:29:16 <heidi> Right, apparently they want you to use "fedup"
 127 18:29:42 <darci> John: Did you do an upgrade to 18? or a clean install?
 128 18:29:49 <john> Clean install
 129 18:29:52 <heidi> Hi Dark_Rose
 130 18:29:56 <Dark_Rose> Sorry I'm late.. got caught up in something. Hi everyone
 131 18:30:01 <darci> Hi!
 132 18:30:03 <Stoney> hi
 133 18:30:25 <Stoney> i just gave them your update Dark_Rose, but feel free to expand
 134 18:30:32 <john> Avoid major upgrades personally for the exact reason as demonstrated above :)
 135 18:30:35 <Logan> Yeah, "fedup" was what I was using when I got the issue. I then did a clean install and everything worked great.
 136 18:30:53 <amber> yea clean install is the way to go
 137 18:31:10 <Logan> And I did not think about uploading to git before upgrading, so all my changes went away
 138 18:31:12 <heidi> AAh, OK.
 139 18:31:17 <heidi> :-(
 140 18:31:31 <heidi> OK, so Logan you're at the point of installing Mousetrap?
 141 18:32:04 <Logan> Correct, I have fedora up and running agian, and have begun the process of reinstalling Mousetrap and its dependencies
 142 18:32:19 <Stoney> Dark_Rose, amber is planing to add you as a contributor to her github repo (correct amber?), can you give your your account name on github
 143 18:32:22 <Stoney> ?
 144 18:32:29 <amber> yes
 145 18:32:48 <Dark_Rose> thank you! Pretty much I have my own branch of mousetrap on git hub, pulled from Amber. Currently I am stuck at: "Import Error: the module environment does not exist" or something of the sort. It is called in mousetrap/app/main.py by "import environment as env", don't know if anyone has any ideas?? and amber my username on github is "WNEmousetrap"
 146 18:32:57 <Stoney> amber, do you want logan on there as well
 147 18:33:00 <Stoney> ?
 148 18:33:09 <amber> i sent you a snippet on the status page dark_rose
 149 18:33:11 <Stoney> (I keep forgetting my question marks :))
 150 18:33:18 <amber> yea sure send me ALL THE USERNAMES
 151 18:33:37 <amber> sorry if no one got that reference
 152 18:33:48 <Stoney> I think I'm "StoneyJackson"
 153 18:34:02 <Logan> I am "lhotchkiss"
 154 18:34:26 <heidi> :-)
 155 18:34:38 <heidi> So what was the reference? :-)
 156 18:34:38 <Dark_Rose> just saw your message amber, I'll be able to work on it when I get back into lab where my computer is on Monday, thanks!
 157 18:34:43 <amber> np
 158 18:35:19 <heidi> My user name is heidiellis
 159 18:36:14 <heidi> John, how about you?
 160 18:37:24 <Stoney> Question: What's our goal right now? Port to cv2?
 161 18:37:49 <amber> well its a dead end to try to get it working in cv1, so yea.
 162 18:38:01 <john> Was sick throughout last weekend, so didn't have the chance to do much. I installed Mousetrap via Amber's instructions. Installed fine, and got the same exact error as Nicole (using the main branch).
 163 18:38:09 <amber> i think im going to go off in a branch and make big changes see what happens
 164 18:38:09 <heidi> Ah, OK.
 165 18:38:12 <heidi> Good!
 166 18:38:24 <heidi> OK, good for you.
 167 18:38:30 <amber> john see my note to nicole
 168 18:38:40 <amber> you have to still install the package
 169 18:38:56 <amber> so it can make the extra files it needs
 170 18:39:16 <john> Planning to switch to Amber's fork
 171 18:39:27 <john> but I'm not sure how that works -- how do I remove the old and install the new?
 172 18:39:44 <heidi> Where is the "message" on how to fix the install problem?
 173 18:39:47 <amber> it should build over it
 174 18:39:59 <john> that's all? Cool
 175 18:40:01 <amber> very bottom heidi
 176 18:40:13 <heidi> Very bottom of what?
 177 18:40:25 <amber> so john pretty much a "./autogen.sh" "make" and "sudo make install" should do it
 178 18:40:48 <amber> http://www.xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Status#2.4.2013
 179 18:40:51 <Stoney> just curious what does autogen.sh and make install put in place?
 180 18:41:03 <amber> autogen checks for dependencies
 181 18:41:09 <Stoney> ok
 182 18:41:11 <amber> the make builds files to run
 183 18:41:19 <amber> (dont quote me lol)
 184 18:41:26 <heidi> Amber, you rock!
 185 18:41:27 <Stoney> that's what i'm wondering... what is it building?
 186 18:41:39 <Stoney> I thought this was a python project
 187 18:41:42 <amber> well i know it makes the env module
 188 18:41:49 <Stoney> oooh
 189 18:41:52 <Stoney> cool
 190 18:41:55 <Logan> Make compiles the changes, and make install installs them into the system
 191 18:41:57 <Stoney> and yes, amber rocks
 192 18:41:58 <amber> bc i remember getting that error before when i didnt run make
 193 18:42:13 <heidi> Make is a utility to handle compilation of files.
 194 18:42:32 <heidi> It allows you to only specify which files should be recompiled and linked under what conditions.
 195 18:42:54 <amber> thanks heidi :)
 196 18:42:58 <heidi> This allows developers to only have to recompile files that have been changed since the last compile.
 197 18:43:02 <Stoney> i get make, I just didn't understand is what is it being used
 198 18:43:10 <Stoney> what = why
 199 18:43:29 <Dark_Rose> sorry... my connection keeps kicking out...
 200 18:43:29 <heidi> "make install" is actually installing MouseTrap
 201 18:43:33 <Stoney> especially since we are using python
 202 18:44:09 <Stoney> so it's putting some files in "the right location"
 203 18:44:14 <Stoney> got it
 204 18:44:17 <heidi> So "make install" would check to make sure that all configuration files are in the right place.
 205 18:44:20 <heidi> Yes, you got it.
 206 18:44:32 <Stoney> cool thanks
 207 18:44:33 <heidi> Simplifies the install as we're not using in IDE.
 208 18:44:44 <Stoney> mmmm... IDE
 209 18:45:17 <heidi> autogen.sh (a.k.a. buildconf) provides automatic build system preparation and is generally very useful to projects that use the GNU build system (i.e. the GNU autotools: autoconf, automake, and libtool). It is a POSIX shell script that is used for preparing a build system for compilation, verifying versions, ensuring necessary functionality, and overcoming many common build preparation issues.
 210 18:45:43 <Stoney> cool, sorry I didn't do my homework :)
 211 18:46:02 <heidi> I'm doing it on the fly with google! Although I've worked with "make install" before.
 212 18:46:34 <heidi> So John you're all set to go forward?
 213 18:47:21 <Stoney> so, it's supposed to help us avoid dependency-heck, but we are still there (dependency-heck)
 214 18:47:42 <john> My task list: install Amber's branch, add to Steps wiki (USB creation) and working on this install shell script I'm doing on the side.
 215 18:47:44 <amber> yes bc its checking for outdated things
 216 18:47:48 <amber> :)
 217 18:48:09 <Stoney> so ultimately we need to update it too
 218 18:48:10 <heidi> Amber, as for that missing message, it is a the bottom of what?
 219 18:48:24 <heidi> Ah, right! Good point!
 220 18:48:33 <Logan> Stoney, the autogen has a list of dependencies (which are outdated, as amber mentioned). It checks against this lsit to try and ensure you don't receive dependency errors when it gets to the build point
 221 18:49:10 <amber> i updated the conf file so it works in my fork stoney
 222 18:49:20 <amber> and the message to nicole is here: http://www.xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Status#2.4.2013
 223 18:49:23 <Stoney> excellent, thanks amber
 224 18:49:29 <Stoney> and thanks logan
 225 18:49:37 <heidi> Super, thanks!
 226 18:49:58 <john> Though I'll probably not do anything until President's day weekend since I have a hell of a week coming up...
 227 18:50:26 <darci> :-)
 228 18:50:46 <Dark_Rose> john, luckily my exams and papers are spread over 3 weeks staring next week so I'll still be able to squeeze work in lol
 229 18:51:22 <john> 2 projects + 2 quizzes (that I'm not prepared for) all by Tuesday. *cries*
 230 18:51:30 <Dark_Rose> good luck!!
 231 18:51:56 <darci> I'm willing to answer questions if I can.
 232 18:53:07 <darci> Does anyone have anything else to share?
 233 18:53:46 <amber> just that if anyone wants me to walk them through something, i can stay after the meeting. or anyone can email me.
 234 18:53:47 <darci> It sounds like everyone has a todo list
 235 18:54:01 <darci> That's great!
 236 18:54:02 <heidi> Yup.
 237 18:54:12 <john> amber, (after next week) I'll be happy to help with autogen.sh. It's pretty simple, but still :)
 238 18:54:12 <Stoney> Yup, port to cv2 :)
 239 18:54:56 <heidi> Right, and "make" can be a pain.
 240 18:55:06 <heidi> It can choke if you have a spare space at the end of a line.
 241 18:55:13 <Stoney> make id fun :)
 242 18:55:23 <heidi> So just be careful with autgen and make. :-)
 243 18:55:26 <amber> well that part is sorted in the code, its just following the install on gnomes mousetrap site
 244 18:55:29 * heidi laughs
 245 18:56:17 <amber> here it says to do those things: https://live.gnome.org/MouseTrap/Installation
 246 18:56:37 <amber> and even if you clone a working version, you still need to compile it
 247 18:56:45 <john> Yes, but those instructions as you know don't work as the packages they ask for are outdated/misnamed
 248 18:57:25 <amber> ah true, i guess getting a perfect list would be a good to-do
 249 18:57:43 <john> Basically copy+paste from our Steps page onto there :)
 250 18:57:44 <amber> with what i sent you last week to start?
 251 18:57:52 <amber> yea perfect
 252 18:57:57 <darci> Heidi: Can we get the mousetrap installation instructions updated?
 253 18:57:59 <Dark_Rose_> i put up instructions on the getting started page for the dependencies that seemed to be needed
 254 18:58:09 <Logan> http://xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Getting_Started
 255 18:58:20 <heidi> Darci, do you mean get them upgraded on the MouseTrap site?
 256 18:58:26 <heidi> Or on the foss2serve site?
 257 18:58:27 <darci> Yes
 258 18:58:32 <darci> Mousetrap site
 259 18:59:00 <Stoney> ultimately we should figure out how to contribute back to the documentation as well
 260 18:59:02 <heidi> Sure, you can edit that directly. If you've been posting the notes of our meeting, you can update that as well.
 261 18:59:04 <heidi> Right.
 262 18:59:14 <heidi> Darci and I both have wiki accounts on GNOME.
 263 18:59:22 <heidi> And you may sign up as well.
 264 18:59:24 <john> The only issue with updating the instructions on the mousetrap site is that it's intended for a working install on older systems. I followed the instructions on Ubuntu 10.04 and it worked just fine. We should leave it as-is until we get our branch working and merged back into theirs
 265 18:59:37 <heidi> Yes, exactly.
 266 18:59:43 <amber> agreexd
 267 18:59:45 <Stoney> right
 268 18:59:46 <amber> agreed*
 269 18:59:49 <heidi> The instructions should match the version that is being downloaded.
 270 18:59:51 <heidi> :-)
 271 19:00:11 <darci> Sounds good!
 272 19:00:15 <john> haha, succinctly said heidi
 273 19:00:16 <heidi> Has anyone filed a bug about updating to cv2?
 274 19:00:29 <amber> i thought there was one?
 275 19:00:43 <amber> Logan, did you do that one?
 276 19:00:56 <amber> on bugzilla
 277 19:00:58 <heidi> OK, haven't checked. If so, we should include a note that when we commit that version, we need to update installation instructions.
 278 19:01:14 <Logan> Yes i filed a bug for that a couple weeks ago
 279 19:01:47 <john> Oh boy, it's 1:00 already. I need to be going soon
 280 19:02:02 <darci> Me too...should we end the meeting?
 281 19:02:04 <heidi> Sure, go ahead John.
 282 19:02:08 <heidi> Fine with me!
 283 19:02:16 <Stoney> i think we're set
 284 19:02:24 <amber> yep
 285 19:02:24 <darci> Ok...thank you all!
 286 19:02:30 <heidi> Yes, there is a bug to upgrade to OpenCV
 287 19:02:33 <Logan> Heidi, i updated the but
 288 19:02:34 <heidi> Yes, thanks to all!
 289 19:02:35 <Logan> bug
 290 19:02:36 <john> have a great weekend all -- and stay safe
 291 19:02:40 <heidi> :-) got it
 292 19:02:45 <Dark_Rose_> since school is closed today all I'm doing is homework lol, bye everyone!
 293 19:02:47 <heidi> Thanks! Great work all!
 294 19:02:49 <darci> You too!
 295 19:02:51 <heidi> bye
 296 19:02:52 <Stoney> bye, enjoy the snow
 297 19:02:53 <amber> bye everyone! have a great weekend
 298 19:02:55 <darci> Bye all
 299 19:03:01 <darci> #endmeeting