18:06:20 <darci> #startmeeting
18:06:20 <tota11y> Meeting started Fri Feb  8 18:06:20 2013 CET.  The chair is darci. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:06:20 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:06:33 <darci> #topic Updates
18:06:51 <darci> Amber do you want to start?
18:07:03 <amber> I could probably simplify everything Stoney for simplier reading
18:07:06 <amber> Sure.
18:07:33 <amber> I just tried using a different webcam to see if an error would go away, but it seems that it doesn't matter regardless.
18:07:48 <amber> I also emailed the tutorial guy about opencv, and his email is outdated
18:07:59 <heidi> Ah, OK.
18:08:07 <heidi> Did you ping the A11y community about this?
18:08:12 <amber> Working to port some things to opencv 2 today to see if I can make more progress
18:08:46 <heidi> Amber, have we asked Joanie if she knows an opencv expert? I can't remember.
18:09:00 <amber> I was waiting to here back from the contact, but now I can ping a11y
18:09:11 <amber> i dont think so
18:09:30 <darci> #info Would like to find someone with opencv expertise
18:09:32 <heidi> Ah, OK.
18:09:43 <amber> #action ping a11y for opencv support
18:09:52 <heidi> joanie, would you happen to know someone with opencv expertise?
18:10:02 <joanie> not off the top of my head
18:10:15 * joanie wonders if API_afk does
18:10:35 * API_afk reading
18:10:37 <heidi> Ah, thanks. Amber who is the most advanced in working with MouseTrap is still struggling with conversion.
18:10:39 <API_afk> opencv expertise?
18:10:40 <API_afk> no sorry
18:10:47 <API_afk> I never needed to
18:10:49 <heidi> Thanks API_aft
18:10:57 <API_afk> heidi, no problem, and sorry
18:11:00 <heidi> :-)
18:11:23 <joanie> if I keep scrolling up will I find what the specific problem is?
18:11:24 <heidi> Joanie, any idea where to go? Would asking the larger gnome community work?
18:11:37 <amber> where are you looking joanie?
18:11:56 <joanie> amber: what I mean is.... What specific problem are you having?
18:11:56 <heidi> amber, can you describe the general problem?
18:12:05 <joanie> I wasn't paying attention to this conversation until I was pinged
18:12:10 <amber> creating an image roi
18:12:24 <Stoney> roi?
18:12:31 <joanie> is there an open cv list?
18:12:35 <amber> list?
18:12:43 <joanie> region of interest I assume
18:12:49 <joanie> mailing list
18:12:55 <amber> not sure
18:12:56 <joanie> where are the open cv devs?
18:13:02 <joanie> that is where I would start
18:13:16 <heidi> Ah, thanks.
18:13:20 <joanie> figure out where the opencv devs live (community-wize)
18:13:22 <amber> they have a git
18:13:25 <joanie> and what tools they use
18:13:27 <amber> opencv.org
18:13:28 <heidi> A recent list of issues is here: http://www.xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Status#2.4.2013
18:13:28 <joanie> for communication
18:13:33 * joanie looks
18:13:36 <heidi> Ah, right!
18:13:41 * heidi thinks "duh"!
18:13:56 <joanie> http://answers.opencv.org/questions/
18:14:42 <joanie> http://www.packtpub.com/cool-projects-with-opencv/book
18:14:45 <heidi> What joanie just suggested (which I didn't think of) is to contact the opencv community directly.
18:15:02 <joanie> that's where the opencv expertise likely is
18:15:07 * joanie grins
18:15:28 <heidi> :-) Right
18:15:32 <heidi> Thank you!
18:16:10 <heidi> #action Contact opencv community - amber
18:16:12 <joanie> http://opencv.org/contribute.html has a link for email
18:16:43 <heidi> Amber let me know if you want to walk through approaching the community using IRC.
18:16:58 <amber> the a11y community?
18:17:44 <heidi> The opencv community
18:17:50 <heidi> That is where we should be asking the questions.
18:17:56 * joanie nods
18:17:56 <heidi> At least about opencv
18:17:57 <amber> ok.
18:18:02 <joanie> and if all those attempts fail
18:18:20 <joanie> please let me and API_afk know and we'll help you more actively try to get some answers
18:18:24 <amber> i just think out of context, it would be hard to describe the problem to an outside person
18:18:49 <joanie> being able to show them some code might help
18:18:52 <heidi> Yes, but you have the logs of the errors to which you can point people.
18:18:54 <heidi> Right'
18:19:39 <joanie> I'm trying to accomplish x. Here's my code. Here's the error. Here's what the docs say. Could you please tell me how to do this-very-specific-thing.
18:20:06 <joanie> i.e. busy devs like to see some indication that you did all the appropriate stuff yourself and know what you are talking about
18:20:18 <joanie> but are having a specific problem
18:20:24 <heidi> Yes, exactly.
18:21:20 <darci> Does anyone else have an update?
18:21:22 <joanie> amber: does this all make sense?
18:21:30 <joanie> (sorry darci)
18:21:35 <amber> yes
18:21:38 <darci> No prob!
18:21:40 <joanie> awesome
18:21:41 <heidi> Good.
18:21:47 * joanie goes back to her to do list
18:21:51 <joanie> ping me if you need me :)
18:21:53 <heidi> You're doing a great job in tracking down the issues amber.
18:21:55 <darci> Thanks!
18:22:00 <joanie> and thanks again for all your work guys! :)
18:22:07 <heidi> Yes, thanks joanie! You're a peach!
18:22:23 <heidi> Any other questions on how to proceed amber?
18:22:34 <amber> not now
18:22:59 <heidi> Great.
18:23:46 <heidi> Who is next?
18:23:57 <Logan> I'll go.
18:24:47 <Logan> I updated to Fedora 18 earlier this week which corrupted my install. I have been forced to start from scratch, so I'm working on getting caught back up to where I was
18:25:02 <heidi> Ah, that isn't fun.
18:25:14 <amber> is the goal to switch to 18 now or later in the process?
18:25:19 <heidi> Do you know what Nikki's status is? Or the status of the install on the lab machine?
18:25:37 * heidi thinks about upgrading timing
18:25:48 <Stoney> I can give you Nikki's status
18:26:02 <heidi> Logan, do you know what the problem was with your upgrade to 18?
18:26:05 <Stoney> Nikki has fedora 18 installed on a computer in the lab
18:26:24 <Stoney> Nikki has cloned amber's fork
18:26:58 <Stoney> But she is looking into using GitHub to fork amber's fork, and then work off a clone of that
18:26:59 <heidi> Ah, good!
18:27:17 <Stoney> allowing her to contribute back to amber by making a pull request through github
18:27:19 <amber> it might be easier if i just add her as a collaborater
18:27:26 <Stoney> might be :)
18:27:27 <heidi> Ah, OK.
18:27:29 <heidi> :-)
18:27:34 <amber> so we can see eachothers progress
18:27:43 <amber> especially if everyone is going to start to code
18:27:49 <Logan> heidi, I'm not sure exactly what caused the error, but the install was missing files after it rebooted that prevented me from booting into anything
18:27:52 <amber> it wouldn't make sense to go to 5 forks
18:27:52 <Stoney> yup, just have to keep the branches straight
18:28:15 <heidi> Amber, I don't know what to tell you about updating to Fedora 18. Think what I'd do is get a reasonable version of MouseTrap, commit it to github, then upgrade to 18.
18:28:25 <amber> sounds good
18:28:37 <heidi> Then if something goes wrong, you can still get a copy of your work on mousetrap.
18:28:44 <heidi> Right, I agree.
18:28:52 <Stoney> I think Nikki has a github account, but I don't know what her name is on there
18:28:57 <Logan> It may have been an issue with my download being corrupt, I'm not entirily sure. The directions on the Fedora site for upgrading from 17 to 18 are not great, since they switched the process in which it happens
18:29:16 <heidi> Right, apparently they want you to use "fedup"
18:29:42 <darci> John: Did you do an upgrade to 18? or a clean install?
18:29:49 <john> Clean install
18:29:52 <heidi> Hi Dark_Rose
18:29:56 <Dark_Rose> Sorry I'm late.. got caught up in something. Hi everyone
18:30:01 <darci> Hi!
18:30:03 <Stoney> hi
18:30:25 <Stoney> i just gave them your update Dark_Rose, but feel free to expand
18:30:32 <john> Avoid major upgrades personally for the exact reason as demonstrated above :)
18:30:35 <Logan> Yeah, "fedup" was what I was using when I got the issue. I then did a clean install and everything worked great.
18:30:53 <amber> yea clean install is the way to go
18:31:10 <Logan> And I did not think about uploading to git before upgrading, so all my changes went away
18:31:12 <heidi> AAh, OK.
18:31:17 <heidi> :-(
18:31:31 <heidi> OK, so Logan you're at the point of installing Mousetrap?
18:32:04 <Logan> Correct, I have fedora up and running agian, and have begun the process of reinstalling Mousetrap and its dependencies
18:32:19 <Stoney> Dark_Rose, amber is planing to add you as a contributor to her github repo (correct amber?), can you give your your account name on github
18:32:22 <Stoney> ?
18:32:29 <amber> yes
18:32:48 <Dark_Rose> thank you! Pretty much I have my own branch of mousetrap on git hub, pulled from Amber. Currently I am stuck at: "Import Error: the module environment does not exist" or something of the sort. It is called in mousetrap/app/main.py by "import environment as env", don't know if anyone has any ideas?? and amber my username on github is "WNEmousetrap"
18:32:57 <Stoney> amber, do you want logan on there as well
18:33:00 <Stoney> ?
18:33:09 <amber> i sent you a snippet on the status page dark_rose
18:33:11 <Stoney> (I keep forgetting my question marks :))
18:33:18 <amber> yea sure send me ALL THE USERNAMES
18:33:37 <amber> sorry if no one got that reference
18:33:48 <Stoney> I think I'm "StoneyJackson"
18:34:02 <Logan> I am "lhotchkiss"
18:34:26 <heidi> :-)
18:34:38 <heidi> So what was the reference? :-)
18:34:38 <Dark_Rose> just saw your message amber, I'll be able to work on it when I get back into lab where my computer is on Monday, thanks!
18:34:43 <amber> np
18:35:19 <heidi> My user name is heidiellis
18:36:14 <heidi> John, how about you?
18:37:24 <Stoney> Question: What's our goal right now? Port to cv2?
18:37:49 <amber> well its a dead end to try to get it working in cv1, so yea.
18:38:01 <john> Was sick throughout last weekend, so didn't have the chance to do much. I installed Mousetrap via Amber's instructions. Installed fine, and got the same exact error as Nicole (using the main branch).
18:38:09 <amber> i think im going to go off in a branch and make big changes see what happens
18:38:09 <heidi> Ah, OK.
18:38:12 <heidi> Good!
18:38:24 <heidi> OK, good for you.
18:38:30 <amber> john see my note to nicole
18:38:40 <amber> you have to still install the package
18:38:56 <amber> so it can make the extra files it needs
18:39:16 <john> Planning to switch to Amber's fork
18:39:27 <john> but I'm not sure how that works -- how do I remove the old and install the new?
18:39:44 <heidi> Where is the "message" on how to fix the install problem?
18:39:47 <amber> it should build over it
18:39:59 <john> that's all? Cool
18:40:01 <amber> very bottom heidi
18:40:13 <heidi> Very bottom of what?
18:40:25 <amber> so john pretty much a "./autogen.sh" "make" and "sudo make install" should do it
18:40:48 <amber> http://www.xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Status#2.4.2013
18:40:51 <Stoney> just curious what does autogen.sh and make install put in place?
18:41:03 <amber> autogen checks for dependencies
18:41:09 <Stoney> ok
18:41:11 <amber> the make builds files to run
18:41:19 <amber> (dont quote me lol)
18:41:26 <heidi> Amber, you rock!
18:41:27 <Stoney> that's what i'm wondering... what is it building?
18:41:39 <Stoney> I thought this was a python project
18:41:42 <amber> well i know it makes the env module
18:41:49 <Stoney> oooh
18:41:52 <Stoney> cool
18:41:55 <Logan> Make compiles the changes, and make install installs them into the system
18:41:57 <Stoney> and yes, amber rocks
18:41:58 <amber> bc i remember getting that error before when i didnt run make
18:42:13 <heidi> Make is a utility to handle compilation of files.
18:42:32 <heidi> It allows you to only specify which files should be recompiled and linked under what conditions.
18:42:54 <amber> thanks heidi :)
18:42:58 <heidi> This allows developers to only have to recompile files that have been changed since the last compile.
18:43:02 <Stoney> i get make, I just didn't understand is what is it being used
18:43:10 <Stoney> what = why
18:43:29 <Dark_Rose> sorry... my connection keeps kicking out...
18:43:29 <heidi> "make install" is actually installing MouseTrap
18:43:33 <Stoney> especially since we are using python
18:44:09 <Stoney> so it's putting some files in "the right location"
18:44:14 <Stoney> got it
18:44:17 <heidi> So "make install" would check to make sure that all configuration files are in the right place.
18:44:20 <heidi> Yes, you got it.
18:44:32 <Stoney> cool thanks
18:44:33 <heidi> Simplifies the install as we're not using in IDE.
18:44:44 <Stoney> mmmm... IDE
18:45:17 <heidi> autogen.sh (a.k.a. buildconf) provides automatic build system preparation and is generally very useful to projects that use the GNU build system (i.e. the GNU autotools: autoconf, automake, and libtool). It is a POSIX shell script that is used for preparing a build system for compilation, verifying versions, ensuring necessary functionality, and overcoming many common build preparation issues.
18:45:43 <Stoney> cool, sorry I didn't do my homework :)
18:46:02 <heidi> I'm doing it on the fly with google! Although I've worked with "make install" before.
18:46:34 <heidi> So John you're all set to go forward?
18:47:21 <Stoney> so, it's supposed to help us avoid dependency-heck, but we are still there (dependency-heck)
18:47:42 <john> My task list: install Amber's branch, add to Steps wiki (USB creation) and working on this install shell script I'm doing on the side.
18:47:44 <amber> yes bc its checking for outdated things
18:47:48 <amber> :)
18:48:09 <Stoney> so ultimately we need to update it too
18:48:10 <heidi> Amber, as for that missing message, it is a the bottom of what?
18:48:24 <heidi> Ah, right! Good point!
18:48:33 <Logan> Stoney, the autogen has a list of dependencies (which are outdated, as amber mentioned). It checks against this lsit to try and ensure you don't receive dependency errors when it gets to the build point
18:49:10 <amber> i updated the conf file so it works in my fork stoney
18:49:20 <amber> and the message to nicole is here: http://www.xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Status#2.4.2013
18:49:23 <Stoney> excellent, thanks amber
18:49:29 <Stoney> and thanks logan
18:49:37 <heidi> Super, thanks!
18:49:58 <john> Though I'll probably not do anything until President's day weekend since I have a hell of a week coming up...
18:50:26 <darci> :-)
18:50:46 <Dark_Rose> john, luckily my exams and papers are spread over 3 weeks staring next week so I'll still be able to squeeze work in lol
18:51:22 <john> 2 projects + 2 quizzes (that I'm not prepared for) all by Tuesday. *cries*
18:51:30 <Dark_Rose> good luck!!
18:51:56 <darci> I'm willing to answer questions if I can.
18:53:07 <darci> Does anyone have anything else to share?
18:53:46 <amber> just that if anyone wants me to walk them through something, i can stay after the meeting. or anyone can email me.
18:53:47 <darci> It sounds like everyone has a todo list
18:54:01 <darci> That's great!
18:54:02 <heidi> Yup.
18:54:12 <john> amber, (after next week) I'll be happy to help with autogen.sh. It's pretty simple, but still :)
18:54:12 <Stoney> Yup, port to cv2 :)
18:54:56 <heidi> Right, and "make" can be a pain.
18:55:06 <heidi> It can choke if you have a spare space at the end of a line.
18:55:13 <Stoney> make id fun :)
18:55:23 <heidi> So just be careful with autgen and make. :-)
18:55:26 <amber> well that part is sorted in the code, its just following the install on gnomes mousetrap site
18:55:29 * heidi laughs
18:56:17 <amber> here it says to do those things: https://live.gnome.org/MouseTrap/Installation
18:56:37 <amber> and even if you clone a working version, you still need to compile it
18:56:45 <john> Yes, but those instructions as you know don't work as the packages they ask for are outdated/misnamed
18:57:25 <amber> ah true, i guess getting a perfect list would be a good to-do
18:57:43 <john> Basically copy+paste from our Steps page onto there :)
18:57:44 <amber> with what i sent you last week to start?
18:57:52 <amber> yea perfect
18:57:57 <darci> Heidi: Can we get the mousetrap installation instructions updated?
18:57:59 <Dark_Rose_> i put up instructions on the getting started page for the dependencies that seemed to be needed
18:58:09 <Logan> http://xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Getting_Started
18:58:20 <heidi> Darci, do you mean get them upgraded on the MouseTrap site?
18:58:26 <heidi> Or on the foss2serve site?
18:58:27 <darci> Yes
18:58:32 <darci> Mousetrap site
18:59:00 <Stoney> ultimately we should figure out how to contribute back to the documentation as well
18:59:02 <heidi> Sure, you can edit that directly. If you've been posting the notes of our meeting, you can update that as well.
18:59:04 <heidi> Right.
18:59:14 <heidi> Darci and I both have wiki accounts on GNOME.
18:59:22 <heidi> And you may sign up as well.
18:59:24 <john> The only issue with updating the instructions on the mousetrap site is that it's intended for a working install on older systems. I followed the instructions on Ubuntu 10.04 and it worked just fine. We should leave it as-is until we get our branch working and merged back into theirs
18:59:37 <heidi> Yes, exactly.
18:59:43 <amber> agreexd
18:59:45 <Stoney> right
18:59:46 <amber> agreed*
18:59:49 <heidi> The instructions should match the version that is being downloaded.
18:59:51 <heidi> :-)
19:00:11 <darci> Sounds good!
19:00:15 <john> haha, succinctly said heidi
19:00:16 <heidi> Has anyone filed a bug about updating to cv2?
19:00:29 <amber> i thought there was one?
19:00:43 <amber> Logan, did you do that one?
19:00:56 <amber> on bugzilla
19:00:58 <heidi> OK, haven't checked. If so, we should include a note that when we commit that version, we need to update installation instructions.
19:01:14 <Logan> Yes i filed a bug for that a couple weeks ago
19:01:47 <john> Oh boy, it's 1:00 already. I need to be going soon
19:02:02 <darci> Me too...should we end the meeting?
19:02:04 <heidi> Sure, go ahead John.
19:02:08 <heidi> Fine with me!
19:02:16 <Stoney> i think we're set
19:02:24 <amber> yep
19:02:24 <darci> Ok...thank you all!
19:02:30 <heidi> Yes, there is a bug to upgrade to OpenCV
19:02:33 <Logan> Heidi, i updated the but
19:02:34 <heidi> Yes, thanks to all!
19:02:35 <Logan> bug
19:02:36 <john> have a great weekend all -- and stay safe
19:02:40 <heidi> :-) got it
19:02:45 <Dark_Rose_> since school is closed today all I'm doing is homework lol, bye everyone!
19:02:47 <heidi> Thanks! Great work all!
19:02:49 <darci> You too!
19:02:51 <heidi> bye
19:02:52 <Stoney> bye, enjoy the snow
19:02:53 <amber> bye everyone! have a great weekend
19:02:55 <darci> Bye all
19:03:01 <darci> #endmeeting