Attachment 'IRC20110309.log'
Download<OgMaciel> let's get the show on the road <andreasn> woo! <OgMaciel> Agenda is at http://live.gnome.org/FoundationBoard/MeetingAgenda <OgMaciel> Topic: Asking members to contribute to marketing GNOME 3.0 <OgMaciel> pockeylam: I assume you'd want to talk about this? <OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: ? <yippi> if we are going to ask members to contribute to marketing, we have to give them tools --> fmuellner (~florian@50.Red-83-50-250.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #foundation <aday> OgMaciel: i think sumanah added it to the agenda <OgMaciel> ahhh <BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: talk about ? <yippi> do we have marketing material to hand out to people? <aday> OgMaciel: i can chip in here <yippi> asking members to contribute to GNOME 3 marketing <OgMaciel> aday: you got the floor :) <sumanah> (I did add it to the agenda) <BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: yes i also think sumanah added the item <emily> yippi: We have launch party goodies, which is ready now --> SEJeff (~jeff__@209.160.81.1) has joined #foundation <aday> sumanah: ah, sorry - thought you were out <yippi> right. having goodies for the GNOME 3 parties is one thing. But perhaps we should also make marketing materials available to people who want to print out fliers, posters, etc. <sumanah> yippi: your wish has already been granted! <yippi> or, do more to encourage people to do something with those marketing materials <yippi> world peace? <aday> we have a list of tasks that we need help with - http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/Tasks#GNOME_3_marketing <yippi> ah yes. having a GNOME 3 CD ready for GNOME.Asia might be nice <aday> there are also lots of writing tasks, including the release notes, gnome.org and gnome3.org --> staz (~olivier@ks201635.kimsufi.com) has joined #foundation <andreasn> the Live CD design is on my todo. Hope to have it done this week <OgMaciel> aday: how are you letting people know what needs to be done? <sumanah> yippi: check out http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/ConferenceMaterial & http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/MarketingMaterial <sumanah> OgMaciel: I posted to f-list, we blog on PGO <OgMaciel> do we need to advertise that there are small tasks? <OgMaciel> sumanah: thanks <sumanah> we of course communicate in #marketing and on marketing-list <aday> and me and sumanah have both mentioned it in our blog posts <sumanah> yippi: what would you like to sign up for? <aday> and sumanah - you emailed the foundation list, didn't you? <sumanah> yes <yippi> are you picking on me? <sumanah> "how you can help GNOME 3" -- http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2011-March/msg00015.html <OgMaciel> just making sure that we're getting the word across on all channels :) <aday> the basic message is that there is *lots* to do, so if anybody even has a spare hour, get in touch <sumanah> OgMaciel, yippi -- what channels can you think of that we haven't hit? <yippi> Does The Friends of GNOME webpage highlight GNOME 3? <yippi> I think "Friends of GNOME" is a website that a lot of users go to, and we do a bad job of reaching out to users. <sumanah> andreasn: do we have any stats on how many hits that site gets? <yippi> perhaps we could do more to target advertising GNOME 3 and getting involved on websites that users are more likely to go visit <andreasn> sumanah, not sure. Will need to check with the sysadmins <OgMaciel> we currently do not mention anything gnome 3 related on fog <andreasn> not sure how we would aim it on FoG <yippi> Couldn't we have a banner advertising GNOME 3? <yippi> GNOME 3 is ready! <andreasn> on FoG or in general? <OgMaciel> this could be a "global" banner fwiw <yippi> sure <sumanah> ok, we can talk about details later, I figure -- other than FoG, what other information channels should we hit? --> rand (~mog@chello062178154247.8.14.vie.surfer.at) has joined #foundation <OgMaciel> sumanah: social media? maybe get more blog posts? reach out to LWN? <yippi> perhaps Linux users groups <aday> a specific blog post with our current list of to do items would be good --> mccann (~jmccann@c-24-61-82-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #foundation <OgMaciel> aday: +1 <sumanah> yep <sumanah> ok, the marketing team will address those + FoG. <sumanah> ok, the marketing team will address those + FoG. <yippi> it would be nice if we could develop more grass roots efforts, I think <OgMaciel> aday, sumanah so, if everyone here could walk out with a small task to help out, what would that be? <aday> OgMaciel: they could all write a blog post about what they like about gnome 3 --> cassidy (~cassidy@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) has joined #foundation <pockeylam> http://live.gnome.org/ThreePointZero/EventSupport#Marketing_channels <OgMaciel> hmmmm <aday> OgMaciel: or about how they have been involved. something they are proud of <pockeylam> actually i put how we market the gnome 3 / gnome 3 release party here a few months ago :) --> hadess (~hadess@cpc5-glfd6-2-0-cust140.6-2.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #foundation --> engla (~ulrik@90-229-236-112-no153.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #foundation <yippi> Public Access TV in the U.S. will do free commercials for non-for-profits <yippi> we have videos. can we make a commercial that we could get free airtime for? <aday> we also need web hackers and anybody who can write about the project or the release <OgMaciel> so I guess we need to pound on the mailing lists and let people know that we need them to step up <sumanah> yippi: I anticipate that would not be a well-targeted use of our time <OgMaciel> and get more posts out there * aday nods <OgMaciel> cool <yippi> i don't know. making a good 30-second promotional has a lot of uses besides being just something you could put on free tv <sumanah> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/Tasks tell your friends <sumanah> yippi: sure. and that is why we are making GNOMEIn30Seconds videos. <sumanah> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/Gnome3In30Seconds <yippi> well, if we have the videos already, we could encourage people to get them more airplay <yippi> wow, you guys have been busy <sumanah> yippi: I would rather encourage people to use their time to reach out to the communities we care about most for the GNOME 3 release, not just random TV-watchers <andreasn> sumanah, agreed <yippi> sure <BLUG_Fred> so i don't understand. we're making the videos but "that would not be a well-targeted use of our time" <OgMaciel> seriously, great job aday and sumanah <sumanah> BLUG_Fred: I need to clarify <aday> jclinton is behind the videos. he's a legend <sumanah> BLUG_Fred: the GNOMEIn30Seconds videos are a good use of our time <BLUG_Fred> isn't those 2 statement contradictory? <sumanah> BLUG_Fred: getting them online, getting viewership for them from Linux users is a good use of our time <sumanah> but getting them on TV is not <sumanah> our priorities in marketing the GNOME 3 launch are the following audiences, as articulated at the May 2010 hackfest: <sumanah> 1. current users of GNOME 2.x <sumanah> 2. GNOME developers <sumanah> 3. the accessibility community <sumanah> 4. distributions (such as OpenSUSE, Fedora, Ubuntu, and Mandriva) <sumanah> BLUG_Fred: does that clarify? <OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: anyone with time could take those videos and try to get them on TV... but resources are limited is what I'm getting <sumanah> right --> andre_ (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net) has joined #foundation <OgMaciel> anything else we should discuss before moving on to the next topic? <OgMaciel> going once <emily> <OgMaciel>: one more quick uodate <OgMaciel> :) <OgMaciel> emily: sure <emily> <OgMaciel> GNOME 3.0 packages is ready and deliver to every party today <emily> we totally have 112 parties all over the world <OgMaciel> wow <emily> The party orgnizors will have a tracking number to track those goodies in about 10 days <pockeylam> no , we have 130+ registered, but we sent only to 112 parties <pockeylam> :) <OgMaciel> :) <sumanah> not to harp on this, but please blog/dent/tweet, folks: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/Tasks -- or, as aday suggested, write about something you're proud of regarding GNOME 3, something you contributed to <pockeylam> as the other organizers didn't give their delivery / contact details <sumanah> congrats, emily & pockeylam -- that's a fantastic number <pockeylam> before the deadline <OgMaciel> sumanah: +1 <emily> That's all for the update about the launch party <OgMaciel> thank you emily and pockeylam <emily> move on ? <OgMaciel> <OgMaciel> Topic: Questions about Canonical's interaction with the Foundation Board <OgMaciel> let us hear them (questions) <jdub> I apologise in advance for raising the issue, particularly after such an exciting summary of marketing activity --> BLUG_fred2 (c2ce3f5d@ircip2.mibbit.com) has joined #foundation <jdub> I have four questions, will pose them one-by-one. <jdub> Is the list of Canonical representatives to the Advisory Board on the wiki correct and up-to-date? (Jane Silber, Matt Zimmerman, Rick Spencer) <OgMaciel> should be afaik <jdub> ok :) <jdub> Has a Canonical representative participated in, or been present for, Advisory Board discussions about GNOME 3.0 and/or Unity since the 2008 user experience hackfest? <sumanah> (people who want to keep talking about marketing -- BLUG_fred2 & yippi etc. -- feel free to come to #marketing ) <OgMaciel> Rick Spenser has always been present during our AB meetings <yippi> what do you mean by Advisory Board discussions. Are you asking if this was discussed at an Advisory Board meeting, or if Canonical discussed this with the board privately? <jdub> This question is about involvement in AB discussions. <jdub> Among the Foundation and other representatives. --> jrb (~jrb@static-71-174-236-21.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #foundation <gpoo> jdub: no, as far as I know. <OgMaciel> I'd say that most discussions during AB meetings are not related to these 2 topics <jdub> OK. <jdub> No GNOME 3 strategy chatter at AB meetings? <gpoo> jdub: we have discussed about our copyright assignment policy, but not GNOME 3 as you say <jdub> (Based on my experience of 2.0, that seems strange!) <yippi> there has been a Canonical representative regularly attending AB meetings. At least 1 at 2 of the last 3 meetings. <yippi> Rick Spencer is a particularly vocal AB member. <jdub> (Of course, that was almost ten years ago now...!) <jdub> OK. <jdub> Next Q. <jdub> Did a Canonical representative inform the Board prior to the October 25, 2010 announcement that Unity would be the default user experience in Ubuntu 11.04? Have there been private, non-AB discussions about it since then? <yippi> at the latest AB meetings, planning for events (GNOME.Asia/Desktop Summit/Hackfests), and ED Hiring has been hot topics <andreasn> We did not know about it prior to the UDS announcement. Vuntz, me and Ryan spoke to Jane and Mark at UDS to make sure that we got to know about these things beforehand <andreasn> mostly in order to be prepared about press questions (that we didn't get :) ) <hadess> look, it's jdub <andreasn> and Mark took that feedback and told us about the QT thing before they announced that <OgMaciel> right <jdub> andreasn: Was that suggestion accepted? (if appropriate to ask/answer) <jdub> OK <jdub> That's a pretty good sign of acceptance! <andreasn> jdub, suggestion to let us know about these kind of big tech things beforehand? Yes <OgMaciel> ok <OgMaciel> any more questions related to this topic? <jdub> Last Q from me. <jdub> Has a Canonical representative approached the Board about the conduct of individuals or organisations involved in the GNOME community? <hadess> jdub: nope <OgMaciel> not sure what that means <yippi> jdub, can you help us to understand what sort of individuals or organizations you are talking about? <jdub> OgMaciel: raising concerns about the behaviour of individuals or organisations, such as blocking work, etc. <-- pockeylam has quit (Leaving) <jdub> yippi: any gnome contributor or maintainer, individual or organisational (company, say) <hadess> jdub: apart from one case where mark told me i couldn't read minds, not really :) <OgMaciel> jdub: I have not heard anything coming from Canonical in regards to the behavior of people --> pockeylam (~pockeylam@119.121.74.132) has joined #foundation <OgMaciel> where people == any gnome contributor or maintainer, individual or organisational <jdub> hadess: I'm assuming that wasn't a comment directed at the Foundation Board. :-) <jdub> Bonus question. <hadess> jdub: no, to me, in board related emails <jdub> In the period 2008-2010, has a Canonical representative raised concerns about the direction of GNOME 3.0 and/or GNOME Shell? <jdub> (to the board) <OgMaciel> to the Board in specific I assume <OgMaciel> ok <hadess> not with the current board <hadess> not sure about before <OgMaciel> during my time as a member of the Board I don't recall such a concern being brought by them <hadess> yippi? <OgMaciel> s/brought/raised <jdub> I have a partially related question or two for yippi, btw. <yippi> Yes, Canonical has raised that they have had issues working with upstream GNOME getting features they want integrated <jdub> OK, now that's a different answer! <yippi> though, to be honest, I can't remember what forum exactly that was raised on. But I believe it was with the board directly. <yippi> and I also do not remember any names being mentioned <jdub> yippi: Was there any attempt to mediate the problem? <jdub> Was the issue raised in a public forum at any point? <yippi> it has been difficult, I think, since Canonical and GNOME manage things so differently. Artificial barriers like the use of LaunchPad, copyright assignment, etc. <OgMaciel> jdub: any more questions? <OgMaciel> on that topic <hadess> yippi: are you sure that's about working with gnome, or about getting stuff they wrote into gnome? <jdub> yippi: At the 2010 UX hackfest in London, --> stephh (~steph@cro34-2-82-228-149-26.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #foundation <jdub> Were Canonical employees besides mpt consistently active in the discussions? <yippi> Yes, Canonical was quite active at the Usability Hackfest. <hadess> yippi: huh, what? <mccann> which one were you at? <jdub> yippi: Based on the photos, it doesn't seem like there were too many Canonical people regularly in the room. <gpoo> https://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/London2010 <yippi> aside from hosting it, they managed a usability study that they presented. <yippi> i felt they were engaged, but that's just me --> adorilson (~adorilson@187.68.119.14) has joined #foundation <OgMaciel> for the sake of time, I'm going to suggest we move on and defer questions related to Canonical and GNOME to maybe after one more topic or mailing list? <yippi> hadess, no i'm not really sure if i remember if Canonical's issues they raised was about working with gnome or getting stuff they wrote into gnome <jdub> OK, thanks. I did ask more than four. :-) <gpoo> jdub: fwiw, one of the reasons to having people as vuntz, desrt and andreas in the last UDS was to try improve our communication with them. <jdub> gpoo: Did the Foundation sponsor their attandance? <OgMaciel> jdub: thank you for your questions for sure <gpoo> jdub: I can't recall exactly, but I can check it. <OgMaciel> ok <OgMaciel> Topic: GNOME Friends program: list of GNOME hackers <andreasn> jdub, my participation was sponsored by Canonical going there. <OgMaciel> sumanah: was that you? <hadess> yippi: they did present one usability study, they didn't engage in all the discussions about gnome3 design though <sumanah> OgMaciel: no <andreasn> jdub, I think it was the case for Ryan and Vuntz too. <OgMaciel> who wanted to talk about Friends of GNOME? <yippi> hadess, ok <OgMaciel> Topic: GNOME Friends program: list of GNOME hackers :) <OgMaciel> any takers? <OgMaciel> Do we want to update the list of hacker? <BLUG_fred2> OgMaciel: javier added the question I believe <OgMaciel> is that it? <gpoo> jjardon is not present <OgMaciel> ok... let's open the floor to more questions then <OgMaciel> any topic <OgMaciel> we got 9 minutes <OgMaciel> +/- 2m <OgMaciel> :) <andreasn> Just a quick thing about the Desktop Summit <OgMaciel> cool <BLUG_Fred> gpoo: from the wiki page history "FoundationBoard/MembersAgenda (last edited 2011-03-09 14:03:20 by JavierJardon)" <andreasn> * Registration is open <BLUG_Fred> gpoo: maybe he is hiding -) <OgMaciel> andreasn: w00t <andreasn> and people should apply for doing talks https://www.desktopsummit.org/cfp <hadess> andreasn: so, the CfP is opened, not registration <hadess> andreasn: or is it both? <mccann> just wondering, why was the decision made to require a KDE identity to register for this conference? <hadess> mccann: because they did the work <hadess> on the website <andreasn> March 25th is the deadline for submission of abstracts <mccann> hadess: yeah it shows <andreasn> hadess, both (as far as I can see) <hadess> andreasn: could you poke them to send a separate email about registration then? <andreasn> mccann, yeah, it was just because it was simple <mccann> FWIW, I think it is highly unfortunate <hadess> andreasn: because it wasn't clear from the announcements <andreasn> mccann, I did the design :'( <andreasn> ;) <mccann> andreasn: not on the kde site <BLUG_Fred> so we need to register to kde website to register to the conference? <gpoo> mccann: unfortunately we do not have some sort of validation. Otherwise, I do not see any reason to add the equivalent for GNOME. <BLUG_Fred> wow.. -1 <mccann> I think it is really unfortunate message to send to the GNOME ecosystem <mccann> and not a wise move in a year of GNOME 3 - fwiw <mccann> just my opinion :) <andreasn> it was a bit hard to get hold of people to help with the website stuff, so I'm happy that we got something up in the end <andreasn> mccann, make sure to mention this in the feedback that nobody sends in after the conference (I usually forget anyway ;) ) <OgMaciel> hehe <mccann> I thought the last desktop summit was a mistake and I think this one is too <OgMaciel> we still got a few minutes left for more questions <mccann> I gave that feedback and I will again :) <OgMaciel> mccann: fair enough <BLUG_Fred> isn't it changeable before the conference? <BLUG_Fred> rather than 'after' <OgMaciel> andreasn: ^^ ? <andreasn> BLUG_Fred: the infrastructure? --> bigon (bigon@anor.bigon.be) has joined #foundation <OgMaciel> registration <BLUG_Fred> andreasn: well the login, maybe adding one option? <andreasn> BLUG_Fred: we could look into it. Needs someone to do it. Want to bring it up on the desktopsummit mailing list? <andreasn> let me get back to you on that <BLUG_Fred> don't foundation members feel it's an issue? <staz> it's not like gnome had an unified identification framework <BLUG_Fred> are we just 2 here feeling it's awkward to ask GNOME users/dev to register at kde.org for the conference? <BLUG_Fred> staz: well a neutral user management system could be chosen/offered <staz> so I don't really see the trouble borrowing kde one <staz> but it's true they could have juste used openid or something <OgMaciel> maybe it's a matter of finding an unified "theme" then <OgMaciel> style <BLUG_Fred> drupal has built-in user management <OgMaciel> the underlying mechanism shouldn't matter <aday> i definitely think that it sends the wrong signal, particularly in light of gnome 3 <sumanah> yes, but, should we be putting scarce developer time into this kind of work duplication? <BLUG_Fred> redirecting gnome users/fan/dev to kde.org for registration is .. so so <aday> but i also understand that there have been minimal resources to get this done <sumanah> right <andreasn> I might have less of an issue with the KDE that the average GNOME foundation member, but it really saved us some work <aday> andreasn: yes, i understand --> pcutler (~pcutler@c-75-72-118-230.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #foundation <aday> andreasn: you're already working miracles :) <sumanah> So, we, smart GNOME people, leveraged work that the KDE people had already done in creating a registration system, and saved ourselves some hassle. <mccann> :) <OgMaciel> andreasn: don't think it's a "GNOME x KDE" thing but more of a "why do I need to go there" thing <BLUG_Fred> sumanah: you mean us GNOME lazy people, are willing to give up our identity? <BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: yes <OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: we should then focus all this energy into getting someone to do the work :) <andreasn> OgMaciel, agreed. So I'll try to look into it. It's going to be further down my todo. Might have time after the weekend <sumanah> BLUG_Fred: sounds like your perspective is very different from mine! <mccann> so as you may expect from me I think user experience, community building, and brand strength should trump engineering efficiencies :) <OgMaciel> I fell that it's more stetics than identity <sumanah> OgMaciel: aesthetics? <mccann> but I understand it is probably too late to fix <OgMaciel> sumanah: yes <andreasn> mccann, I know, that clashes with my mantra. "Be lazy" <andreasn> :) <OgMaciel> sumanah: you know... stetics, the other aesthetics :) <OgMaciel> ok <OgMaciel> well, it's been a fun meeting <OgMaciel> and I thank you all for coming <BLUG_Fred> andreasn: why drupal native accounts were not chosen? <BLUG_Fred> it doesn't require any extra work, it's built-in <andreasn> BLUG_Fred: not sure. Will look into it. <BLUG_Fred> andreasn: it s not like it's extra work. adding kde stuff is extra work <BLUG_Fred> sumanah: which makes your point moot <OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: sounds to me you've just volunteered to do the work? <staz> they probably didn't want people to have to register for yet another account <OgMaciel> :) <-- andre_ (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net) has left #foundation <BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: í'm fighting my own battes with GNOME.Asia <BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: thank you <-- mccann (~jmccann@c-24-61-82-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has left #foundation <gpoo> BLUG_Fred: if they did the work and they had the infrastructure in place... <staz> or kde people asking them why them made a new registration system when they already have an unified one <-- bigon (bigon@anor.bigon.be) has left #foundation <OgMaciel> BLUG_Fred: just saying that you may know more about how to get it done than others... you may know someone who can help perhaps? <BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: i can ask, but it wil be people outside of the gnome community <OgMaciel> I don't see that as a problem <OgMaciel> but I trust andreasn will do the best that he can <BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: which might bring issues about access --> stormy (~stormy@38.107.217.2) has joined #foundation <sumanah> BLUG_Fred: not sure what you mean, but this isn't important to me so I'll drop it <BLUG_Fred> OgMaciel: i'll ping people around then <OgMaciel> okey dokey <-- sumanah (~sumanah@cpe-72-229-227-71.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #foundation <OgMaciel> well, once again, that you all for participating <OgMaciel> really great questions all around <OgMaciel> minutes shall be posted in the usual place <OgMaciel> and the next meeting will be in 2 weeks <OgMaciel> same time <aday> OgMaciel: thanks. see you next time :) <OgMaciel> thank aday :) <OgMaciel> really great job! <OgMaciel> Next GNOME Foundation IRC Meeting: Wednesday March 23rd, 2011 | Agenda: http://live.gnome.org/FoundationBoard/MeetingAgenda
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