1 16:06:39 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:06:39 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Nov 29 16:06:39 2012 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:06:39 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:07:24 <API> #topic JAW
   5 16:07:46 <API> #info API sent that mail to gnome-accessibility, ccing peter korn, as agreed on last meeting
   6 16:07:53 <API> #info asking about the status of JAW
   7 16:07:55 <API> questions?
   8 16:08:21 <mgorse> Huh. I'm not seeing the build error on my machine.
   9 16:08:48 <mgorse> but will be interesting to see if anyone replies, in any case
  10 16:09:02 <API> well, probably that would depend on the environment
  11 16:09:05 <mgorse> though it could be as Joanie was worrying about, that Peter will say nice things but nothing will happen
  12 16:09:45 <clown> API, I'm looking at your email to the gnome a11y list.  I don't see the cc to peter korn.  Was it a bcc?
  13 16:09:49 <API> but at least we would need where we are
  14 16:10:13 <API> clown, joanie also pointed that
  15 16:10:20 <API> on my sent folder
  16 16:10:23 <API> peter is CCed
  17 16:10:31 <API> so not sure why doesn't appear there
  18 16:10:42 <API> probably because peter is also subscribed or something
  19 16:10:45 <clown> okay.  dang email client apps!
  20 16:11:39 <API> so if nobody else asks, I will move to next point
  21 16:11:56 <API> #topic Outreach Program for Women
  22 16:12:30 <API> #info some students appeared at the #a11y
  23 16:12:54 <API> #info and we didn't have too much to offer, except, "take a look around, and then told us in what are you interested"
  24 16:13:14 <API> #info the only specific task was review the jaw thing
  25 16:13:49 <API> #info so if we are interested, it would be good to have a list of tasks to propose
  26 16:14:02 <API> clown, I think that we talked last year about that
  27 16:14:18 <API> and you had a task in the buffer, not sure if that it is still available
  28 16:14:25 <clown> API, yes I had a proposal a while back — has it been a year already?
  29 16:14:39 <clown> API, I have zero time for that now, though.
  30 16:15:06 <API> ok
  31 16:15:26 <API> anyway, it would be good  if everybody thinks about a task to propose
  32 16:15:33 <clown> the task is stil there; I can look up the description, and if someone else wants to mentor it, they can go for ti.
  33 16:15:44 <API> something that a intern/student could work on
  34 16:16:03 <API> clown, so please, for minutes sake, could you info that and put the link?
  35 16:16:10 * clown looks for link
  36 16:18:11 <clown> found it.
  37 16:18:56 <clown> #info Joseph described a OPW project approximately a year ago.
  38 16:19:04 <clown> #info the description is at this link:  https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/AriaAutomatedTesting
  39 16:19:17 <clown> #info at this time, Joseph does not have the time to mentor anyone.
  40 16:19:21 <clown> (done)
  41 16:19:37 <API> ok, thanks
  42 16:20:01 <API> anyway, for everybody listening ...
  43 16:20:10 <API> although today we are not so many ...
  44 16:20:26 <API> #action API will send a mail to the list about the OPW thing
  45 16:21:12 <API> so lets move to next topic,
  46 16:21:20 <API> #topic Python 3
  47 16:21:32 <API> well, in theory the star here is jhernandez ... that it is n ot here
  48 16:21:34 <API> anyway
  49 16:21:42 <clown> I have something...
  50 16:21:48 <API> #info jjardon had some GNOME 3.7.2
  51 16:21:52 <API> ups
  52 16:21:56 <API> clown, a moment please
  53 16:22:07 <clown> sure. go ahead.
  54 16:22:09 <API> #info jjardon had some problems releasing GNOME 3.7.2
  55 16:22:37 <API> #info were related to the fact that the move is still not complete
  56 16:22:59 <API> #info our hard target would be have accerciser fully moved to python3 to next release
  57 16:23:06 <API> #info we already have the patches
  58 16:23:24 <API> #info 3.7.3, needed before December 12th at 23:59 UTC
  59 16:23:27 <API> (done)
  60 16:24:44 <API> clown, you can add your "something" now if you want
  61 16:24:49 <clown> okay...
  62 16:25:04 <clown> #info Joseph has been checking the interim focus tracker with python3
  63 16:25:21 <clown> #info It definitely needs modifications.
  64 16:25:49 <clown> #info the problems are confined to the dbus interface, or the way one calls into dbus using python3
  65 16:26:06 <clown> #info there are *no* issues with pyatsip2.
  66 16:26:11 <clown> questions?
  67 16:26:48 <mgorse> If you're using the gio/gdbus bindings now, then, yeah, that API is going to be different
  68 16:27:26 <clown> mgorse: I don't think I have a choice — if one runs under python3, don't you have to use gio/gdbus?
  69 16:27:51 <mgorse> I imagine so
  70 16:28:11 <API> ok
  71 16:28:18 <API> so anything else on this python3 point?
  72 16:28:21 <API> ah yes
  73 16:28:36 * clown sees a light bulb over API's head.
  74 16:28:39 <API> #action joanie or API, will ping jhernandez, as he was not at the meeting
  75 16:28:53 <API> probably I should also ping caribou people
  76 16:29:04 <API> anyway, if nobody has more questions, we can move
  77 16:29:51 <API> ok, nobody talking
  78 16:29:53 <API> moving
  79 16:29:55 <API> #topic GNOME 3.8 updates
  80 16:30:04 <API> #info GNOME 3.7.2 was released this week
  81 16:30:24 <API> #info as mentioned, python3 port still wip, so somewhat mixed (AFAIK)
  82 16:30:26 <API> done
  83 16:30:36 <clown> "wip"?
  84 16:30:42 <API> work in progress
  85 16:30:47 <clown> thanks.
  86 16:30:50 <API> sorry I shouldn't have use that
  87 16:30:55 <API> so any other update?
  88 16:32:08 <mgorse> #info AT-SPI has a few minor build fixes, along with a fix to a crash in a C function that probably wasn't being used by anyone
  89 16:32:59 <API> mgorse, so if  it wasn't used by anyone, how the crash was detected
  90 16:33:01 <API> ?
  91 16:33:25 <mgorse> API: It gave a compiler warning. I was passing parameters in the wrong order.
  92 16:33:33 <API> ah, ok
  93 16:34:56 <API> any other update?
  94 16:36:04 <API> ok, so lets move then
  95 16:36:17 <API> #topic W3C updates
  96 16:36:19 <API> clown, ?
  97 16:36:53 <clown> a couple of things...
  98 16:37:23 <clown> #info the bugzilla for the ARIA User Agent Implementation Guide is now public.
  99 16:37:45 <clown> #info the url for the bugzillas is: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Platform%20APIs&list_id=2458&product=ARIA
 100 16:38:15 <clown> #info the document associated with these bugs is: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/
 101 16:38:55 <clown> #info with respect to the Independent User Interface work, there is a new event proposed.
 102 16:39:26 <clown> #info there is a recognized need to allow users to quickly navigate to major sections of a GUI
 103 16:39:45 <clown> #info an example is the toolbar in a rich text editor
 104 16:40:08 <clown> #info proposed event name is focusRequest
 105 16:40:45 <clown> #info stil speculative, but the thought is to include menu bar, toolbar, window, and palettes as the targets of the kind of focus move.
 106 16:41:04 <API> so a kind of meta-focus?
 107 16:41:23 <API> well a similar functionality is there at gnome-shell
 108 16:41:30 <API> I mean the ctrl+alt+switch
 109 16:41:31 <clown> #info on keyboard systems (laptop, desktop), authors would define keystrokes that would invoke this event
 110 16:41:36 * API holding
 111 16:42:12 <clown> #info the web app would handle the event by moving (keyboard) focus to the major gui object (e.g, the toolbar).
 112 16:42:46 <clown> #info but the event is meant to also work in with devices that don't have a keyboard.  a touch screen, or through voice command.
 113 16:42:55 <clown> done — questions?
 114 16:43:17 <API> hmm, so in that way
 115 16:43:24 <clown> API, yes, this function is sometime there in the desktop.
 116 16:43:37 <API> a kind of "main gui objects" are being defined
 117 16:43:39 <clown> but not typically in web apps.
 118 16:43:54 <API> I mean that the proposal is something like focusRequest (gui-element-1)
 119 16:44:03 <API> but who define those gui-elements?
 120 16:44:31 <clown> that is the next step.  The group realizes this is a good idea, but now the details need to be worked out.
 121 16:44:39 <API> ah ok
 122 16:44:41 <API> thanks
 123 16:44:51 <API> so, more questions to clown in this topic?
 124 16:44:57 <clown> so, the working group will take a stab at it, and at some point solicit comments from the public at large.
 125 16:46:09 <API> well, as nobody else seems to be asking
 126 16:46:15 <API> I will move to next point
 127 16:46:24 <API> btw, clown thanks for the update
 128 16:46:27 <API> #topic Marketing
 129 16:46:29 <API> jjmarin, ?
 130 16:46:43 <clown> wlcm
 131 16:47:58 <jjmarin> I'm afraid there no update this week.
 132 16:48:45 <API> no? I saw a lot of activity on marketing list
 133 16:48:58 <API> although I didn't have time to see what they are talking about
 134 16:49:10 <jjmarin> well, yes but is not related to a11y
 135 16:49:32 <jjmarin> possibly a Webkit related FoG
 136 16:50:03 <jjmarin> about security and privacy
 137 16:50:34 <API> ok, so as you didn't have anything to add
 138 16:50:43 <API> and as jhernandez finally joined us
 139 16:50:50 <API> lets go back and recover ...
 140 16:50:57 <API> #topic Python 3
 141 16:51:18 <API> jhernandez, we talked about that before
 142 16:51:23 <jhernandez> yup
 143 16:51:24 <API> and I added this action
 144 16:51:25 <API> <API> #action joanie or API, will ping jhernandez, as he was not at the meeting
 145 16:51:30 <API> so as you are here now ;)
 146 16:51:39 <jhernandez> it's ok
 147 16:51:46 <API> we were saying that it would be good to have accerciser moved to python3 for the next release
 148 16:51:57 <API> <API> #info 3.7.3, needed before December 12th at 23:59 UTC
 149 16:52:03 <API> jhernandez, how do you see it?
 150 16:52:12 <clown> no pressure, jhernandez.  ;-)
 151 16:52:15 <jhernandez> I'm ok with it
 152 16:52:53 <jhernandez> I talked to joanie before and I said that this is on top my accerciser's TODO list
 153 16:53:14 <jhernandez> but the last two weeks have been crazy for me
 154 16:53:24 <API> well, thats the reason I ask
 155 16:53:32 <API> as previous two weeks were crazy ...
 156 16:53:37 <jhernandez> yup
 157 16:53:43 <API> how feasible do you see the deadline I mentioned before?
 158 16:53:49 <API> do you need help? anything else?
 159 16:53:54 <jhernandez> I do feasible
 160 16:54:24 <API> jhernandez, so, some pretty #info please?
 161 16:54:28 <jhernandez> and Joanie offered herself to support me on to get this task done
 162 16:55:43 <jhernandez> #info Hopefully, Accerciser 3.7.3 will be python3 based. Joanie offered herself to support me on this task.
 163 16:55:52 <jhernandez> are u ok?
 164 16:55:54 <jhernandez> :]
 165 16:56:16 <API> ok, thanks
 166 16:56:26 <API> so as just 5 minutes till the end
 167 16:56:29 <jhernandez> the main problem is that I'm very busy with Cloud4All stuff
 168 16:56:34 <jhernandez> :/
 169 16:56:49 <API> as I said, thats the reason I was asking
 170 16:56:52 <jhernandez> ok ok
 171 16:56:55 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 172 16:57:17 <API> everybody has 5 minutes to add something, forgotten on previous topics or about a new topic
 173 16:57:32 * jhernandez raises his hand
 174 16:57:59 <jhernandez> it's cloud4all related
 175 16:58:35 <jhernandez> the implementers has just started their activities
 176 16:59:21 <jhernandez> and well, as some of you already know, I'm involved in the Linux/GNOME implementation
 177 16:59:36 <API> jhernandez, what do you mean for "activities"?
 178 16:59:41 <API> activities like ....
 179 16:59:47 <API> show people a new webpage?
 180 16:59:50 <jhernandez> activities = real implementations
 181 16:59:57 <API> ah ok
 182 17:00:05 <API> how many implementations will be?
 183 17:00:12 <jhernandez> of the cloud4all architecture into the different devices/applications/scenarios
 184 17:00:13 <API> you are at the linux/GNOME implementation
 185 17:00:15 <API> what others?
 186 17:00:42 <jhernandez> API: http://wiki.gpii.net/index.php/Implementations
 187 17:00:47 <clown> I expect windows and mac os x
 188 17:00:51 * clown looks.
 189 17:01:52 <jhernandez> API: and yes, I'm the Linux/GNOME, but I'm involved in Smartphones and Simplephones
 190 17:01:55 <jhernandez> too
 191 17:02:04 <jhernandez> and
 192 17:02:08 <API> simplephones
 193 17:02:16 <API> I thought that they were just called phones
 194 17:02:27 <API> simplephones sounds like dumbphones
 195 17:02:29 * jhernandez thoughts the same
 196 17:02:32 <jhernandez> xD
 197 17:02:36 <API> probably it is just a false friend :P
 198 17:02:44 <jhernandez> xD
 199 17:03:27 <jhernandez> the point is that I did a draft for the Linux/GNOME implementation
 200 17:03:36 <clown> they call them "feature phones" here.
 201 17:04:06 <API> jhernandez, here: http://wiki.gpii.net/index.php/Implementations
 202 17:04:09 <jhernandez> and I'd like to align my work on Cloud4All with the GNOME community
 203 17:04:11 <API> what means "partial orca"?
 204 17:05:25 <jhernandez> API: since I did not work on this wiki page, I really don't know who wrote this and what does he/she wanted to say with 'partial orca'
 205 17:05:49 <API> jhernandez, ok
 206 17:05:51 <clown> it might have something to do with gsettings
 207 17:05:52 <API> lets try this
 208 17:06:04 <clown> orca doesn't use gsettings except for turning on/off.
 209 17:06:06 <jhernandez> since aleiva quited from Emergya, I'm starting to drive this
 210 17:06:13 <clown> but that's just a wild guess.
 211 17:06:13 <API> what is the difference between linux/GNOME and Linux/GNOME AT?
 212 17:06:24 <jhernandez> and the 'real' work has just started
 213 17:07:31 <jhernandez> API: sorry if I can't answer this, but I think this was extracted from a document I don't know about
 214 17:07:34 <jhernandez> :/
 215 17:08:15 <jhernandez> anyway, I did a Linux/GNOME first draft
 216 17:08:25 * joanie waves
 217 17:08:31 <jhernandez> http://wiki.gpii.net/index.php/GNU/Linux
 218 17:08:36 <clown> you can see all the authors here: http://wiki.gpii.net/index.php?title=Implementations&action=history
 219 17:08:46 <clown> looks like Gregg Vanderheiden started it.
 220 17:09:27 <API> jhernandez, ok, anyway
 221 17:09:31 <API> and in relation with
 222 17:09:35 * clown hi joanie
 223 17:09:45 <API> <jhernandez> and I'd like to align my work on Cloud4All with the GNOME community
 224 17:09:49 <API> as we are already over time
 225 17:09:53 * joanie apologizes for the schedule conflict
 226 17:09:59 <API> probably it would be good if you send a mail to the mailing list
 227 17:10:21 <API> explaining the purpose of the project, and how do you want to align to the GNOME Community
 228 17:10:35 <jhernandez> API: sure!
 229 17:10:45 <API> not sure if at this moment, without most of the background,
 230 17:10:51 <API> the meeting is the proper place
 231 17:11:36 <jhernandez> my intention was only to inform the GNOME a11y team that my 'real' work here was just started
 232 17:11:57 <API> jhernandez, ah ok
 233 17:12:14 <API> as you mentioned "align with GNOME" I thought that you wanted feedback or something
 234 17:12:26 <jhernandez> API: yes, feedback, ideas, etc ...
 235 17:14:04 <API> ok, in that case "mail with background and stuff" still applies
 236 17:14:13 <API> and, as we are already 15 minutes over time ...
 237 17:14:16 <API> anything else for misc time
 238 17:14:37 <jhernandez> not from my side
 239 17:15:31 <clown> not me
 240 17:15:39 <jjmarin> me neither
 241 17:16:46 <API> ok, closing the meeting then
 242 17:16:49 <API> thanks everybody
 243 17:16:52 <API> #endmeeting